Any plan to support Brunner FFB yokes or pedals ?

[Medtner]

It turns out we need to take another path for Force Feedback to work, through Asobo likely. We haven't yet made this request as we're deep into other things but we will and keep in mind they are busy too so it will likely take a while before, if, anything is done. We do want FF to work. It is important to us so we won't be completely dropping this ball.

Scott.

Sorry to hear this isn't panning out yet. I of course understand priorities needs to be made, and that we're only a handful or two of FF users. However, I think the customer base with FF is growing, and at some point it's going to need to be properly addressed.

A little propaganda following:

X-Plane has excellent FF support with all of the planes I've tried. X-Plane also misses having a proper Comanche, let alone any A2A aircraft. I'm just sayin'....

[Martin99]

It turns out we need to take another path for Force Feedback to work, through Asobo likely. We haven't yet made this request as we're deep into other things but we will and keep in mind they are busy too so it will likely take a while before, if, anything is done. We do want FF to work. It is important to us so we won't be completely dropping this ball.

Scott.

Dear Scott,
I now that you want to make perfect planes and also add the best solution for FF. But please could you add the (not so perfect) value for CLS2Sim for the engine thrust, that the elevator weight simulation works for the Brunner Yoke. It worked in all A2A planes with my Brunner Yoke since FSX. I know this is not the level you want, but it needs only a for CLS2Sim readable value for "Idle engine thrust" and "Maximal Engine thrust".

At the moment I either have to turn off "elevator weight" (which make the yoke useless) or push back the yoke at startup run until the speed is holding up the yoke. With every standard MSFS plane this value is available (without native FF), but as Accusim is using different values it only needs that Accusim is showing readable value for CLS2Sim to work.

As a longtime Brunner Yoke owner (maybe one of the first) I hope you can make this possible.

Best Regards,
Martin

[alioth]

I know this is not the level you want, but it needs only a for CLS2Sim readable value for "Idle engine thrust" and "Maximal Engine thrust".

At the moment I either have to turn off "elevator weight" (which make the yoke useless) or push back the yoke at startup run until the speed is holding up the yoke. With every standard MSFS plane this value is available (without native FF), but as Accusim is using different values it only needs that Accusim is showing readable value for CLS2Sim to work.

I read multiple threads about this, and I want to say something, and I want to say it with respect:

I really think it is more the responsibility of Brunner than A2A.
This is a problem derived from having a simulator outside the simulator (accusim 2). But if we want this extreme realism, it has to be this way.

However, the necessary variables are really there, in the form of custom vars -> Lvars
And actually the one who has it easiest is brunner, who would only have to read them.
But Brunner would have to support each of the advanced addons that come out. Does Brunner want to do this? it's up to them.

Lvars for this:
rpm "L:Eng1_PropRPM"
torque "L:Eng1_Torque"
do you want AP functions and following? "L:ApMode"
etc

So, for Brunner it is "just" a checkbox "a2a comanche compatibility" and read these lvars correctly.

I have made my own force feedback in this way:
And I have made a LUA script that sends the vars I want, so it is compatible for every addon. Just edit a file and replace the lvars they are using.

You can see weight elevetor effect and propwash etc with a2a comanche in msfs..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBaXFg8usO4

What I mean by all this is that it is really Brunner who has it easy here to make your system work.

Arturo.

[Arconian]

Dear Scott,
I now that you want to make perfect planes and also add the best solution for FF. But please could you add the (not so perfect) value for CLS2Sim for the engine thrust, that the elevator weight simulation works for the Brunner Yoke. It worked in all A2A planes with my Brunner Yoke since FSX. I know this is not the level you want, but it needs only a for CLS2Sim readable value for "Idle engine thrust" and "Maximal Engine thrust".

At the moment I either have to turn off "elevator weight" (which make the yoke useless) or push back the yoke at startup run until the speed is holding up the yoke. With every standard MSFS plane this value is available (without native FF), but as Accusim is using different values it only needs that Accusim is showing readable value for CLS2Sim to work.

As a longtime Brunner Yoke owner (maybe one of the first) I hope you can make this possible.

Best Regards,
Martin

Not a Brunner user here but I fully support this request. XPForce that I'm using also does not react to the thrust changes as it should and I guess it's because of missing information from the sim. I'm all for the external flight model as Comanche feels fantastic with it, but it could be at least faking internal FM by setting somewhat correct data into the variables which are used by external apps. This would make the Comanche much more "external-apps-friendly" without losing the quality. Thank you.

ps: I doubt Asobo will implement FFB on their side anytime soon, the demand is simply too low for them to throw resources for it.

[MkIV Hvd]

ps: I doubt Asobo will implement FFB on their side anytime soon, the demand is simply too low for them to throw resources for it.

Interesting comment. With that in mind then, what makes you think that A2A should "throw resources at it"?

[aurel42]

But please could you add the (not so perfect) value for CLS2Sim for the engine thrust, that the elevator weight simulation works for the Brunner Yoke.

I believe that the variable that CLS2Sim reads is provided by the "core" engine simulation of the sim, which is circumvented by Accu-Sim. To make the Comanche work with certain career add-ons, A2A lets MSFS simulate an engine that provides some data to those variables -- but they made it tiny, so it doesn't affect the flight dynamics. I suspect you can't get "real" data for engine thrust without having a "real" engine simulated in MSFS (in addition to the Accu-Sim engine) and that would affect the behavior of the Comanche.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[aurel42]

ps: I doubt Asobo will implement FFB on their side anytime soon, the demand is simply too low for them to throw resources for it.

Interesting comment. With that in mind then, what makes you think that A2A should "throw resources at it"?

Among MSFS users, I'm in the Brunner niche of the "realism and immersion" niche of the PC user niche.
Among A2A users, I'm only in the Brunner niche.

Microsoft and Asobo are putting a lot of work into improving the experience on Xbox, probably because that's where most of their users are. They rely on big, established brands and a significant marketing budget.
A2A are in the top tier of add-on developers because of their commitment to make products that even the most sceptic, most hardcore sim users are excited about. They rely (mostly?) on word of mouth.

That being said, it would make so much more sense for Brunner to "throw resources at it". I wish they would at least respond to issues or suggestions raised on their own forum, but they don't. Apart from occasional updates of the CLS2Sim software, they're completely incommunicado as far as I can tell.

[MkIV Hvd]

That being said, it would make so much more sense for Brunner to "throw resources at it".

I completely agree...that's where the resources need to come from.

Cheers,
Rob

[Arconian]

ps: I doubt Asobo will implement FFB on their side anytime soon, the demand is simply too low for them to throw resources for it.

Interesting comment. With that in mind then, what makes you think that A2A should "throw resources at it"?

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by taking this sentence out of context. Did I write A2A should make their own FFB implementation? Did the author of the post I replied to do? No. It's quite normal that users ask the developer to implement one or another feature, isn't it? If it's not possible then fine, so be it. But it's always worth asking.

The thing is, there's not only Brunner in the game. XPForce, FFBeast, VPForce all implement their own FFB-software based on the data provided by the game. And if 99.9% of all aircraft in the game work in the same manner while one single aircraft does not, it's rather the problem of this aircraft and not all FFB-app creators.

[Martin99]

I wrote it several times, why it is not possible for A2A to simply deliver the necessary data that CLS2Sim is working like many years in FSX and P3D? I had never a problem in those simulators with any A2A plane with my Brunner CLS-E Yoke. I don't understand why this isn't possible in MSFS with the new Accusim? This would be the fastest way, that the Comanche would work in MSFS like in P3D and FSX, even without Brunner. There was never a discussion like now, it simply worked out of the box. The value was there.

Please Scott and A2A, do something and make it happen, that my Comanche is working like many years before.

Thanks very much in advance,
Martin

[vk2ams]

G'day Scott and A2A team,

I see in the release notes for update version v1.5.0 additional telemetry variables for force-feedback hardware have been added. Can you elaberate on what variables have been added so that we are able to configure the FF hardware accordingly?

Regards,
Mick

[some1 - A2A]

I see in the release notes for update version v1.5.0 additional telemetry variables for force-feedback hardware have been added. Can you elaberate on what variables have been added so that we are able to configure the FF hardware accordingly?

Hi, these are:

Code: Select all

L:FM_BodyAccelerationX
L:FM_BodyAccelerationY
L:FM_BodyAccelerationZ
L:FM_BodyRotationAccelerationX
L:FM_BodyRotationAccelerationY
L:FM_BodyRotationAccelerationZ

m/s^2 and rad/s^2 respectively.

The standard MSFS acceleration variables "A:ACCELERATION BODY X", "A:ACCELERATION BODY Y", "A:ACCELERATION BODY Z" can be used with the Comanche, but there's been some reports that occasionally there are short spikes in the data caused by MSFS overwriting our values with incorrect numbers coming from stock FM. For that reason we've also added our own variables.

[Martin99]

No Brunner FFB Yoke supported.

[vk2ams]

Hi, these are:

Code: Select all

L:FM_BodyAccelerationX
L:FM_BodyAccelerationY
L:FM_BodyAccelerationZ
L:FM_BodyRotationAccelerationX
L:FM_BodyRotationAccelerationY
L:FM_BodyRotationAccelerationZ

m/s^2 and rad/s^2 respectively.

The standard MSFS acceleration variables "A:ACCELERATION BODY X", "A:ACCELERATION BODY Y", "A:ACCELERATION BODY Z" can be used with the Comanche, but there's been some reports that occasionally there are short spikes in the data caused by MSFS overwriting our values with incorrect numbers coming from stock FM. For that reason we've also added our own variables.

My guess is that these variables would be suited for use on a motion platform or perhaps for turbulance effect on the yoke and rudder? As it is, we're unable to set what variables CLS2Sim use so I guess it's over to Brunner to bring more support to their software.

[some1 - A2A]

Yes, this is additional telemetry for FFB developers, not something useful for the end users.