New Kermie Cam (TP-40N part 3)

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maxonly
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Re: New Kermie Cam

Post maxonly »

Dogsbody55 wrote:Saw their Storch flying at FoF when I was there in 2012. It was so amazing to see this plane go from stop to airborne in 4 seconds. :D


Cheers,
Mike
His Storch Kermit cam was uploaded a little while ago. I posted his new p-51d Kermit cam a couple of days ago. I updated the first post to avoid confusing.
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maxonly
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D)

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P-51D part 2 added to first post.

Really want to thank A2A for the p-51. The fact that I start the p-51d in the same way as Kermit is amazing. The dynamic starting is spot on! Even the startup sound is incredibly similar. Having said that, I almost always get the mustang to start on the first try. 8)

Some things I noticed when watching the vid:

The fuel pressure of Kermit's mustang comes up way faster that a2a's version when the booster pump is turned on. The fuel pressure in the sim used to come up at a similar rate, but after a update a year or two ago it slowed down a lot. Not a big deal tho.

Instead of a g-meter Kermit's plane has some sort of compass? Is that authentic? The gauge does look from the WWII period.

Also, shouldn't Kermit's mustang have a K14 gunsight? I thought all d-models had those.
Last edited by maxonly on 12 Jul 2017, 16:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Bomber_12th
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 2)

Post Bomber_12th »

Actually, about half of the P-51D's produced came from the factory with the N-9 reflector gun sight, as installed in Kermit Weeks' P-51D. For all P-51D-5-NA, D-10-NA, D-15-NA, and the first half of P-51D-20-NA production (as well as the equivalent Dallas-production) - making up most of the Mustangs produced early enough to see action during WWII - came from the factory with the N-9 reflector gun sight. It wasn't until the later half of P-51D-20-NA production and following P-51D-25-NA's and P-51D-30-NA's (and equivalent Dallas-production) that the K-14 gun sight and its bicycle-grip throttle was introduced on production planes (not arriving in Theatre until early 1945). By around this same time, early 1945, there were K-14 kits that were supplied for the N-9 equipped D's in-Theatre, to be modified in the field (in England, before this time, some D's are known to have had the British gyro-computing sights installed in the field (for which the K-14 was a copy of), as well as the Navy-version of the K-14 as well - whatever could be found/thought better to use than the N-9 - one D I know of had a P-38 gun sight installed in it).

Kermit Weeks' P-51D is a P-51D-30-NT, one of the last D's ever produced. Being such a later variant, it did have a K-14 gun sight and bicycle-grip throttle (and associated hardware) when it was originally manufactured. However, in the restoration of this aircraft, they put an N-9 gun sight in it because that is the type of gun sight that was installed in the original "Cripes A' Mighty 3rd", which was a P-51D-5-NA - though the mounting setup that you see on Kermit's plane is as it was on the late P-51D-15-NA's and early P-51D-20-NA's. On the P-51D-5-NA, D-10-NA, and first half of D-15-NA's, they also had backup ring & bead sights installed, with the N-9 mounting bracket of a different design on those earlier planes, to hold the ring sight. The white line around the instruments on Kermit's plane is also not correct for the later half of P-51D production, but is for the earliest versions, like the original "Cripes A' Mighty 3rd" - the outline was white up until P-51D-15-NA production, and was yellow from then on.

The accelerometer (or "g-meter") wasn't installed on P-51's until beginning in 1946, as part of a technical order, and thus shouldn't be seen installed on any authentic WWII-era Mustang. The gauge you see on Kermit's plane is probably tied to the modern avionics installed - some of these restorations will use modern gauges at times with the faces redone to look vintage/of the era. Originally, from NAA, this spot of the panel was always covered over with a cover plate, since the cutout for a gauge in this position was considered auxiliary and only had originated as a location for the IFF clock, which was never installed on any production D/K's with the later panel - on the C.B.I. P-51D/K's, which had the directional finding loop antenna/radio compass set installed for navigation, they had the radio compass indicator gauge mounted in that location.
Last edited by Bomber_12th on 12 Jul 2017, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
John Terrell

maxonly
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 2)

Post maxonly »

John,

Thnx for answering my questions. Very insightful!

Max
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post maxonly »

I updated the first post with part 3 of the p-51d Kermie Cam series.

Unlike the other Kermie cams, Kermit recorded his voice using a GoPro. This is a great addition to the video.

(Spoiler) Also, something in the aircraft fails, which made the landing a little sketchy. :P Really impressed how Kermit dealt with it.
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post AviationAtWar »

Finally had a chance to watch part three. I was surprised that he didn't do a low pass to have someone on the ground do a visual check on the gear, and I'm surprised he taxied back in without better assessing what was going on first.

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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post Bomber_12th »

Other than talking up the recording, he seemed very confident to rely on the feeling alone, having flown the aircraft (on and off) for a very long time - since 1979. Also, as he points out, even though the green light didn't turn on, the red light went out when the gear did lock, which is also a pretty clear indication the gear is locked - the green light was actually only an added aid for the pilot to more easily know/have added trust in that the gear was down and locked - on the early planes, such as most all regular production P-51B/C's and the earliest P-51D's, they didn't even have the green light, rather they just had the single red light that would turn on if the gear wasn't locked either up or down (as well as of course when the throttle was brought back below a certain Manifold Pressure - usually set at 18-20 inches MP) - simply by putting the gear down and watching the red light go out, you know that the gear is locked, and that is how it is on Kermit's P-51C (as you can see in his videos flying that aircraft - in the case of the P-51B/C, the gear light was up on top of the instrument panel shroud, at the base of the armored windscreen panel).
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post DHenriquesA2A »

AviationAtWar wrote:Finally had a chance to watch part three. I was surprised that he didn't do a low pass to have someone on the ground do a visual check on the gear, and I'm surprised he taxied back in without better assessing what was going on first.
Kermit is a bit of a character but he knows his stuff. Personally speaking, were that me I would have done a slow low fly by after asking for a gear check. You can, as Kermit did in flight, "feel" the gear being down. If you slow down with the aircraft trimmed for level flight cruise, the nose will get heavy if it's down and you will feel the pressure on the stick.
He did confirm that.
I always carried a few extra bulbs for those push to test lights in case I had a similar incident as Kermit had.
Bottom line is that he was convinced it was the light but just in case he set up in the flare to feel for the mains on the ground. That takes a steady hand but it's doable if you're good enough. The trick in doing that is getting the angles just right so you don't catch the prop. You let it sink in gently until the sight picture tells you it's NOT on the gear. If not, you fly it out and regroup for plan two LOL
I never had a gear issue in the 51 so I can't attest to the quality of the Kermit plan A. Personally, I wouldn't try it.
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

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DHenriquesA2A wrote:
AviationAtWar wrote:Finally had a chance to watch part three. I was surprised that he didn't do a low pass to have someone on the ground do a visual check on the gear, and I'm surprised he taxied back in without better assessing what was going on first.
Kermit is a bit of a character but he knows his stuff. Personally speaking, were that me I would have done a slow low fly by after asking for a gear check. You can, as Kermit did in flight, "feel" the gear being down. If you slow down with the aircraft trimmed for level flight cruise, the nose will get heavy if it's down and you will feel the pressure on the stick.
He did confirm that.
I always carried a few extra bulbs for those push to test lights in case I had a similar incident as Kermit had.
Bottom line is that he was convinced it was the light but just in case he set up in the flare to feel for the mains on the ground. That takes a steady hand but it's doable if you're good enough. The trick in doing that is getting the angles just right so you don't catch the prop. You let it sink in gently until the sight picture tells you it's NOT on the gear. If not, you fly it out and regroup for plan two LOL
I never had a gear issue in the 51 so I can't attest to the quality of the Kermit plan A. Personally, I wouldn't try it.
Dudley Henriques

Well to be honest, my concern would not be wether the gear is down, but wether it is locked... And that is definitely not visible from the ground. Presuming that Kermit Week's airplanes are very well maintained (he states this often enough in his videos) and I think there are little airplanes he knows better than his P-51 or his T-6 I think there is a lot of guaranty, all above as the bulb doesn't glow when he presses it. He has owned them for so long that he for sure knows every little detail of their characters.
That takes a steady hand but it's doable if you're good enough. The trick in doing that is getting the angles just right
The advantage of real flying physics and a real 3D view :D
An antique aircraft is like your best friend's wife:
Look and admire...
BUT DO NOT TOUCH!!!!!!!

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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post DHenriquesA2A »

MarcE wrote:
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
AviationAtWar wrote:Finally had a chance to watch part three. I was surprised that he didn't do a low pass to have someone on the ground do a visual check on the gear, and I'm surprised he taxied back in without better assessing what was going on first.
Kermit is a bit of a character but he knows his stuff. Personally speaking, were that me I would have done a slow low fly by after asking for a gear check. You can, as Kermit did in flight, "feel" the gear being down. If you slow down with the aircraft trimmed for level flight cruise, the nose will get heavy if it's down and you will feel the pressure on the stick.
He did confirm that.
I always carried a few extra bulbs for those push to test lights in case I had a similar incident as Kermit had.
Bottom line is that he was convinced it was the light but just in case he set up in the flare to feel for the mains on the ground. That takes a steady hand but it's doable if you're good enough. The trick in doing that is getting the angles just right so you don't catch the prop. You let it sink in gently until the sight picture tells you it's NOT on the gear. If not, you fly it out and regroup for plan two LOL
I never had a gear issue in the 51 so I can't attest to the quality of the Kermit plan A. Personally, I wouldn't try it.
Dudley Henriques

Well to be honest, my concern would not be wether the gear is down, but wether it is locked... And that is definitely not visible from the ground. Presuming that Kermit Week's airplanes are very well maintained (he states this often enough in his videos) and I think there are little airplanes he knows better than his P-51 or his T-6 I think there is a lot of guaranty, all above as the bulb doesn't glow when he presses it. He has owned them for so long that he for sure knows every little detail of their characters.
That takes a steady hand but it's doable if you're good enough. The trick in doing that is getting the angles just right
The advantage of real flying physics and a real 3D view :D
When I say down you can assume I mean down and locked.
DH

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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post AviationAtWar »

Locked was my concern rather than simply being released from the uplock. Without more in depth knowledge of where the switches for the indicators are, I assumed the switch for the green light was connected to a downlock mechanism.

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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post thomas_mac »

It's great to see Kermit doing more of these. The in-flight audio is a great addition. Cannot wait for the TP-40 series 8)

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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post AKar »

MarcE wrote:Well to be honest, my concern would not be wether the gear is down, but wether it is locked... And that is definitely not visible from the ground.
I don't know the Mustang, but in general, the downlock status can very well be visible from ground. I'd expect in an airplane of that era and construction that if the leg was rigid with the airplane's roll in both ways, I'd cautiously treat is as locked, with good confidence.

-Esa

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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post Bomber_12th »

Note that the green light was never illuminated as it should have been when Kermit turned the electrical power on, did the start-up, taxied-out, final pre-takeoff checks, etc. Although he should have recognized this issue at that time, I can tell that he was going by the mentality of flying his stock C-model "Ina the Macon Belle", as he does so often as well, in which you're never looking for a green light, as there isn't one, and you're only looking to make sure the single red light isn't shining and that you continue to test it to make sure that it is working by pushing on the light (or in the case of the C-model, the test button next to it), so that you know the light is only out because the gear is either locked up or down - as I mentioned earlier, you can see this in his P-51C Kermie-Cam series. The red light, indicating that the gear isn't locked either up or down in the C-model is no different than the red light in the indicator system on the D-model, it is just that D-models (most of them) had the green light added as extra reassurance of there being a safe condition (before the green light and warning horn was added to the indicator system, there had been a few instances with first-time Mustang pilots in '43/'44 who may have become confused in-flight about what the red light meant, leading to some gear-up belly landings of otherwise perfectly sound Mustangs). If the gear wasn't locked down, you would have seen the red light turn on and the gear warning horn sounding as soon as the power was brought back below 22-inches MP as well (or wherever the throttle warning switch has been set for that particular aircraft - it can be set wherever a mechanic/operator wishes to, but usually recommended in the original manuals at somewhere between 18-22 inches MP).
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Re: New Kermie Cam (P-51D part 3, must watch!)

Post MarcE »

AKar wrote:
MarcE wrote:Well to be honest, my concern would not be wether the gear is down, but wether it is locked... And that is definitely not visible from the ground.
I don't know the Mustang, but in general, the downlock status can very well be visible from ground. I'd expect in an airplane of that era and construction that if the leg was rigid with the airplane's roll in both ways, I'd cautiously treat is as locked, with good confidence.

-Esa

at a low pass of 100 knots?

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if the bay doors require a locked landing gear to close, ok... but otherwise, how could that be seen?
An antique aircraft is like your best friend's wife:
Look and admire...
BUT DO NOT TOUCH!!!!!!!

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