C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post any technical issues here. This forum gets priority from our staff.
RickSinGA
Airman
Posts: 13
Joined: 01 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post RickSinGA »

Understood Mike, Thanks.

User avatar
ROB - A2A
A2A Colonel
Posts: 3566
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Location: Bytom, Poland

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post ROB - A2A »

There are many users who read our code/models, extract what they need and use for whatever they want without our assistance.
Of course this doesn't mean that we don't assist if asked. We do offer our assistance for everybody.

regards
ROB
A2A Simulations Inc.

formula100
Airman Basic
Posts: 7
Joined: 03 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post formula100 »

I don't have Saitek panels but I do have 3 Goflight modules and 2 Elite Radio modules and on each of the Goflight modules at least one switch doesn't work. The Elite radio stack has many issues too. Like an earlier poster I wish I had known that this was the case.

I would recommend you state upfront that many panels may not work or will work only with additional programming. I know it has been disappointing for me. The plane flies nice though and I hope you can help some of us.

tmtsui
Airman
Posts: 14
Joined: 03 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post tmtsui »

ROB - A2A wrote:The solution is rather easy, you can ask us what is the variable name for given gauge and use it instead of the default one.

For example the RPM gauge:

<Value Minimum="0" Maximum="35">(A:General eng1 rpm,RPM) 100 /</Value>

raplace (A:General eng1 rpm,RPM) with (L:Eng1_RPM,RPM), let it look like this:

<Value Minimum="0" Maximum="35">(L:Eng1_RPM,RPM) 100 /</Value>

That's all.

regards
ROB
Hi Rob and Some1,

The replacement codes you provide don't work. The needle of the RPM gauge using your codes doesn't move at all.

BTW, if A2A thinks the standard codings for FSX are not correct or accurate, why the AirSpeed, Altimeter, Vertical Speed, Directional Gyro, using the standard codes are all working correctly on your product?

Anything particularly special in the RPM gauge feature A2A implemented onto it? Similar reasons that drove A2A making changes to the FuelFlow, EGT and Oil Temperature codes as well?

Pardon me if I sound a bit rude.

I was very excited to find out the coming of your C172 in the beginning and I paid to buy it without a second thought.

Then I found out your C172 uses some "special codings" that don't compatible to the standard codings, which makes it "unserviceable" in my setup.

If that is the case, why there's no warning on your product page or introductory video about the incompatibility issue between your product and the Saitek or maybe other flight simulation gears ?

Anyway, I look forward to getting some "rather easy" solutions you said to provide us. Followings are the gauges needing your adjustments to make them adaptable to the Saitek cockpit running your C172:

RPM
<Value Minimum="0" Maximum="35">(A:General eng1 rpm,RPM) 100 /</Value>

EGT
<Value Minimum="0" Maximum="2810">2810 (A:ENG1 EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE, farenheit) -</Value>

FEULFLOW
<Value Minimum="0" Maximum="19">(A:Eng1 fuel flow GPH,gallons per hour)</Value>

OIL TEMPERATURE
<Value Minimum="75" Maximum="245">320 (A:GENERAL ENG1 OIL TEMPERATURE, farenheit)</Value>

AMP
<Value Minimum="-60" Maximum="60">(A:Electrical old charging amps, ampere)</Value>

VAC
<Value Minimum="3" Maximum="7">10 (A:SUCTION PRESSURE, inHg)</Value>

Tom

tmtsui
Airman
Posts: 14
Joined: 03 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post tmtsui »

To "visualize" the issues raised, following are links to the images showing the RPM readings on:

1) Saitek FIP (two different versions)
2) RF Cockpit (on iPAD)

http://fsxtimes.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/g01b.jpg

3) FSi C172 Cockpit (on iPAD)

http://fsxtimes.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/g02b.jpg

Note the RPM readings on above platforms 1), 2) and 3) are all consistent. But the one on the A2A C172 is different from all the others.

The following image is the FuelFlow, ETG, VAC, Oil Temp, AMP Gauges readings on:

1) Saitek FIP
2) FSi C172 Cockpit (on iPAD)

http://fsxtimes.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/g03b.jpg

Similarly, the readings on the Saitek FIP and FSi Cockpit are consistent. The ETG and Oil Temperature levels on the A2A C172, in particular, are very different from the FIP and FSi ones.

Tom

tmtsui
Airman
Posts: 14
Joined: 03 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post tmtsui »

BTW, if above gauge reading issues couldn't be solved, wonder if a refund is possible ? Because the product is simply "unserviceable" in my setup.

Tom

User avatar
ROB - A2A
A2A Colonel
Posts: 3566
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Location: Bytom, Poland

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post ROB - A2A »

Yes, of course the refund is possible.

regards
ROB
A2A Simulations Inc.

tmtsui
Airman
Posts: 14
Joined: 03 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post tmtsui »

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the note and sorry to hear that.

Does it mean that above gauge issues wouldn't be supported for the moment?

If no, I'll look forward to getting further solution suggestions from you guys.

If yes, should I send you the Order Confirmation and Payment Receipt by pm for the refund?

Frankly, I really want to see the C172 Trainer workable in my Saitek gear-equipped system. I believe many people think alike.

What a pity if it couldn't.

Regards,

Tom

User avatar
ROB - A2A
A2A Colonel
Posts: 3566
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Location: Bytom, Poland

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post ROB - A2A »

The Accusim is created based on the L variables - which are integral part of the FSX - and this won't be changed.
I'm sorry to hear that you can't fully enjoy our plane due to the incompatibilities but this is rather inability of your hardware to read/use the L variables. You may want to get the refund, there is a good reason for this (you would get the refund even for no reason though) but before that you may try to ask our users how they manage to "force" their hardware to work with our airplanes. Maybe some solutions will be suitable for your situation. Some good advices/hints are given even in this thread. We can provide you details on L variables of your interest.

regards
ROB
A2A Simulations Inc.

Krycekuk
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 306
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: Somewhere near EGTC

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post Krycekuk »

Not sure why this is a big issue.

The Saitek panels work ok with a bit of tinkering in SPAD/FSUIPC. I was up and flying within 30 minutes of owning the A2A C172 on my hardware and that to me is a given for any complex aircraft that I own from various companies. Its all part of the process.

As for the Saitek FIPS they are well overpriced and under performing (I do own them also) and they were only ever designed to work with stock aircraft. So yes if you purchased XYZ company's latest shiny aircraft that uses stock FSX code then chances are they will work ok, but those same aircraft do nothing to excite as at the end of the day you can drone on for hours and hours at full throttle knowing nothing will go wrong, same as stock aircraft.

The massive bonus with developers writing their own custom code to get around limitations of FSX is what has created this welcome boon of exciting aircraft in recent times. The downside is custom code/custom gauges are not always going to be compatible with some hardware or even other software addons. I can list other developers and aircraft I have purchased in the last 3 months all doing nice custom things in different ways and the aircraft being fantastic as a result but none of them worked with my hardware fully out of the box so to speak, some of that I have corrected knowing what I do with FSUIPC/SPAD/LINDA. Saitek FIP's being the most useless addon I have ever brought as these have no decent background software to allow easy access. If you want to tinker with the XML behind them then thats as good as it gets and then its just looking at stock FSX variables. At the end of the day if I need to know a gauge reading I can see it right there in the virtual cockpit. If you are building a home cockpit then the FIP is not what you want to be using unless you like to fly the default Beach Barron, Mooney or C172.

I doubt you will find any developer able to guarantee their FSX addon works with the 1000's of different hardware addons out there. As long as the main controls can be mapped so the aircraft is flyable is the norm. A2A go one step better with their own configuration tool that allows some axis and some functions to be assigned easily and on the fly without an FSX restart. This can help alot, personally I don't use them now days as I have a better understanding of FSUIPC.

As always if we as customers want the best in flight dynamics, engine management and other features that FSX was never intended for then be prepared for the some incompatibilities. Or we can all just stick to the next XYZ aircraft using stock FSX code with no excitement and it will work with pretty much everything. I know which route I would rather go.

A2A from my experience have always taken things onboard and considered the options for future patches/updates and are doing so here again with the C172 to try to make it as friendly as possible but at the end of the day there are always compromises to be made. I would hate to see features disappear from an A2A aircraft just to make it work with a bit of hardware that's not essential to flying the plane.
ASUS Maximus VIII Hero mb
Intel i7 6700K 4 Core @4.5GHz
850 Pro 512Gb SSD for Win 10 64 bit, 1Tb 850 Pro SSD for P3Dv4.
Corsair Vengeance 32Gb DDR4 3000
nVidia 980 Ti
TrackIR 5, EZDOK and CH/Saitek controls and panels
Every A2A Accu-sim aircraft

tmtsui
Airman
Posts: 14
Joined: 03 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post tmtsui »

Yes, Rob. I really like to seek for a solution rather than just getting a refund.

Let's try dealing with the gauges one by one, and aim for a fix for the RPM reading first.

Following is what I and most people are using:

<Value Minimum="0" Maximum="35">(A:General eng1 rpm,RPM) 100 /</Value>

Based on your earlier suggestion of changing it to: <Value Minimum="0" Maximum="35">(L:Eng1_RPM,RPM) 100 /</Value>

This replacement simply puts the gauge in complete static.

Any further comment and suggestion ?

Tom

User avatar
some1 - A2A
A2A Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 1530
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Poland

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post some1 - A2A »

From what we've heard, Saitek FIP's can't read L:variables directly, so that code won't work.
Maybe they can read FSUIPC offsets? Either through original or additional software.
Michael Krawczyk

RickSinGA
Airman
Posts: 13
Joined: 01 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post RickSinGA »

Wow, what a dissertation! Okay, we know that the basic FIP programing was a pile of crap. That's where Tom came in. He has brought a whole new look to the FIP's with his long hours developing the graphics and the code to make them shine. SPAD has nothing to do with the FIP's, period; only the controllers and switches. The FIP's only display data. They are monitors, displaying only what they read from the program.

Now that being said, if the data does exist, and I assume A2A is creating it somewhere (because the gauges in the VC seem to be working), where is it and how do we access it? If it is proprietary simply say so. If it is "L" then maybe Tom knows that language, I am at a loss, or you could point him in that direction. Tom does have a following that seems to grow and he needs your help not the criticism some want to throw around.

I really think it is childish to criticize anyone trying to figure out how to use a new offering in the environment they own and enjoy.

Rick S.

tmtsui
Airman
Posts: 14
Joined: 03 Sep 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post tmtsui »

Hi Rick, very well said.

I saw the "dissertation" last night but ignored it. There are people always thinking they are the smartest.

You are right that SPAD, Linda, FSUIPC have nothing to do with the FIPs.

Tom

FriendlySkies
Airman Basic
Posts: 2
Joined: 09 Nov 2013

Re: C172 and Saitek FIP Panels

Post FriendlySkies »

Hey guys,

I found this thread while looking around on information to do with the FIPS.

The guys at A2A always are helpful. What I wish is there was one of the A2A developers that geek out as much as we did with a pit and had all of these crazy external addons like the FIPS.

Then with all of that brilliant coding knowledge would figure out the actual hacks needed to get these little suckers working. :)

I will be glad to buy one of the A2A guys "developer/coder guy" a FIP if he will make them work and put up some idiot proof instructions. like a video

Currently I have 2 FIPs in the mail and they will finalize my pit. Really I just want the 2 for nav aids such as VOR and ADF. I have not seen if that will be a problem...?

Anyhoo - We sure need to keep in mind that if we are not friendly and patient with the developers they will cut off communicating about supporting items that are not in their job description.

new reply

Return to “C172 Trainer Tech Support”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests