Civilian Mustang - too many issues to enjoy :( [RESOLVED]

[sloppysmusic]

Don't need to check that autorudder joke, I already posted my fsx.cfg on page 1. Might be worth checking out that doc I posted for in depth fault finding! Here it is again for people dropping in on page 5

[REALISM]
PFactor=1.000000
Torque=1.000000
GyroEffect=1.000000
CrashTolerance=1.000000
General=1.000000
UnlimitedFuel=False
AllowEngineDamage=False
TrueAirspeed=False
AutoCoord=False
RealMixture=True
StressDamage=False
GEffect=True
ManualLights=True
GyroDrift=False
CrashWithDyn=True
CrashDetection=True
AutoTrim=False

[Nick - A2A]

Yeah - I noted in my earlier post sloppysmusic that your FSX.cfg indicated that autorudder was unticked, but that it was worth double-checking (in case you've reset any setting during the course of this thread for instance). Not sure what else would account for the rudder failing to have an effect in flight whilst still moving normally. As mentioned, it's difficult to tell whether or not the rudder is working on the ground in the last video because you tend to use the toe brakes instead.

Nick

[DHenriques_]

Don't need to check that autorudder joke, I already posted my fsx.cfg on page 1. Might be worth checking out that doc I posted for in depth fault finding! Here it is again for people dropping in on page 5

[REALISM]
PFactor=1.000000
Torque=1.000000
GyroEffect=1.000000
CrashTolerance=1.000000
General=1.000000
UnlimitedFuel=False
AllowEngineDamage=False
TrueAirspeed=False
AutoCoord=False
RealMixture=True
StressDamage=False
GEffect=True
ManualLights=True
GyroDrift=False
CrashWithDyn=True
CrashDetection=True
AutoTrim=False

Fooling around in your cfg file was NOT what I was addressing when I suggested you try reducing your realism sliders. That would be found in your basic sim settings. If you are now or have before changed settings in your cfg file I would have no idea at all on what to offer you in the way of assistance on your issue.

So I'll bow out of this thread and let others deal with it
I can see I'm doing no good here at all. Sorry I can't be of more help.
Best of luck with your "investigation".
I can NOT replicate your issue here on my system using the A2A Mustang so whatever the issue is it is NOT with the flight model.
DH

[sloppysmusic]

"Fooling around in your cfg file was NOT what I was addressing when I suggested you try reducing your realism sliders"

No fooling around done at any stage. Only displayed fsx.cfg file here and fsuipc.ini etc so you could see what was actually set in plane to diagnose the problem. That is an insulting assumption, sorry, but it is. The cfg is on page 1, not after your realism suggestions.

[DHenriques_]

"Fooling around in your cfg file was NOT what I was addressing when I suggested you try reducing your realism sliders"

No fooling around done at any stage. Only displayed fsx.cfg file here and fsuipc.ini etc so you could see what was actually set in plane to diagnose the problem. That is an insulting assumption, sorry, but it is. The cfg is on page 1, not after your realism suggestions.

Since what you displayed was in no way related to what I suggested the "assumption" was and remains perfectly normal.
This being said, I'll still bow out of all this since flying and not "files" is my area of expertise. I'll wish you the best of luck with your issue and I sincerely hope you opt to retain the Mustang. If not, I'll respect your decision.
DH

[sloppysmusic]

"It is key that you understand (assuming of course that the problem is technique) that there is a built in lag in rudder response in any tail wheel aircraft at low speed and that lag is especially present in a 9000lb to 12000lb fighter like the 51. It is also relevant that you totally understand that we coded that lag perfectly into the A2A flight model."

Ok I learned something there. Definitely was not in the manual during take off section. I understand anticipation. So you are saying I need to apply right rudder DURING initial application of power BEFORE any left rolling?

Again NOT in manual but I'm interested in testing something new.

Rudder IS shown at full often in videos, but as you say if I have been using it to CORRECT left drift then it will have absolutely no effect on plane? Video 1 at 14:00 25 knots full right rudder and toe (no way does the toe brake cancel out the rudder?)

Video 2
2:05 rudder pedals showing right rudder is being pressed the whole time.

Here are some notes from this thread so far:

"From your pre-takeoff outside view the rudder seems to be working properly.
From what I am seeing it looks like you are not getting right rudder response even though you are applying it properly."

"SOMETHING isn't right with your rudder. I would zero in on that."

"The only takeoff where you show rudder input is the one starting at 14:00. You've lost control by 14:08 because you aren't using nearly enough rudder, and you're relieving backpressure on the stick too early. Once the airplane is out of control on the takeoff roll you're not getting it back. "
(ok i KNEW i was applying rudder..just not enough)

"Yes, the tailwheel steering is linked to the rudder. The point of holding the stick back is to keep the tailwheel firmly on the ground to maintain control until there is enough airspeed for the rudder to be effective. PUshing the stick forward disengages the tailwheel steering from the rudder and allows tighter turns. Having the stick neutral or back keeps tailwheel steering engaged."

Problem here is rudder pedals do not turn aircraft at ANY speed. ie i do NOT have tailwheel steering. That would of course explain the whole problem here. ENTIRELY. Will check see if wheel is turning in outside view today (although if it was plane would ahve ahd to respond before).
Have not noticed tailwheel steering during taxi at all. Assumed there wasnt any as it didn't have any effect.

Going to check this soon. It may indeed be the whole problem, as I have always been on the rudder pedals during any take off in last 10 years.

[sloppysmusic]

"Since what you displayed was in no way related to what I suggested the "assumption" was and remains perfectly normal."

It's directly related but you may not have known that, sorry. I showed the exact point in fsx.cfg where setting autorudder has an effect. A screenshot would have shown the tick box but the fsx.cfg is the hard proof the setting was actually saved and applied by the sim.

AutoCoord=False

Ticking the box in autorudder makes this false to OFF and true to ON.

[sloppysmusic]

There's a good chance I may have found the problem.

I have zero tail wheel steering. Locked or unlocked it never moves except in reaction to plane turning with brakes.
(i just checked yet again in the sim but this time looking exactly for this issue)

Does the real plane have it?

I notice a topic with this here before

https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewto ... 14&t=29602

"To make the tailwheel steerable, in the Aircraft.cfg file go to the [contact points] section. In the "point0" entry, change the first value of "180" you encounter (from left to right) to "90" (Without parenthesis).
Sorry I cant give you a text file/line. I'm typing from memory as I'm not on base

Did the trick for my Uiver team DC2. Should work for all tailwheelers I think.

Cheers."

"Thanks for that config tidbit! Worked like a charm! I don't know WHY those stock P51s couldn't have been fine right out of the box."

Would this basically software coding tweak fix my issue?
Does this make the plane now act less realistically? IS that why it was left out of the config during install?

I would still prefer definitely NOT to apply this tweak if it makes the plane unrealistic.

So a definite answer here may fix the issue entirely.

Does the P51 Civvy have a steerable tail wheel? IS it steered by rudder pedals? Pulling stick back would of course lock it so it wouldnt swing you all over the place, that makes sense, but it should still allow you to make those small corrections so badly needed?

I just checked my aircraft.cfg the aforementioned '180' is indeed there.

[TreeTops]

I explained previously, pulling back the stick locks the tail wheel into steerable mode, where you use the rudder pedals to steer the tail wheel 6 degrees left or right. Pushing it to centre or forward releases the tail wheel to become free castering, for sharp turns.
The cfg mod you mentioned will break this logic and suggest you remove it.

[TreeTops]

Video 2 2.01 mins you push the right rudder and get an immediate response of the nose swinging right. At 2.25 mins you release the right rudder and the left swing immediately increases. This shows that rudder response is there.

[sloppysmusic]

"Video 2 2.01 mins you push the right rudder and get an immediate response of the nose swinging right"

It DOES show that indeed, but it is only my fully depressing right toe brake at same time i get a reaction there.

Im using right rudder instinctively there from years of simming. It's what my legs do during take off.

Posting another video shortly , only 4 mins long or so this time (collective sighs of relief noted!). This should clear up any doubt at all that the rudder pedal has absolutely zero effect on the plane steering at low speed. Ergo no tail wheel steering. No steering = no take off realistically possible.

[AviationAtWar]

It boils down to needing to determine why the rudder pedals aren't moving as shown in the last video. Either you have a hardware problem and your input isn't being seen by the sim, which I've mentioned a couple times; or the pedals aren't moving in the video because you aren't moving your hardware.

[Nick - A2A]

Actually, the talk of steerable tail wheels reminds me that it was demonstrated in an earlier thread that the steerable tail wheel in the A2A P-51 isn't actually truly steerable. The method of demonstrating this relied on taxiing the aircraft after engine shutdown (so with no prop wash over the rudder) and observing that the aircraft is completely uncontrollable below a certain speed.

This may be relevant to this thread. However, I guess it's important to remember that the steerable tail wheel isn't the most important thing which keeps the aircraft straight during take-off; it's the rudder itself and the air flow over it. In the A2A Mustang, it seems that the rudder effectiveness is so good at slow speed with the engine running, that it takes on the function of the steerable tail wheel (in my installation anyway).

Wonder if this is a deliberate design compromise by A2A? (i.e. how effective is the steerable tail wheel in the real thing?) Would be good to get some input from the devs on this question anyway.

Leaving that aside, not sure why rudder control (with the rudder itself) isn't effective for you sloppysmusic. Have you tried just taxiing around at a moderate speed and using just the rudder pedals (no toe brakes allowed) to try and keep the aircraft on the taxiways? (i.e a slow speed exercise rather than the attempted take-offs?)

Thanks,
Nick

[sloppysmusic]

https://youtu.be/ZRAQetaqWh4

4 min video with great views showing what is the problem here.

Thanks Nick for your input. Yes Ive been taxiing and Im very proficient using toe brakes. (have to as there is no tailwheel steering at all).
This video is surely conclusive proof of that.
I hope it also vindicates my assertion that I DO know what Im doing, but the plane is not responding as it should.

[AviationAtWar]

Can you post a video showing all your realism settings?