Civilian Mustang - too many issues to enjoy :( [RESOLVED]

[TreeTops]

And this is with or without the cfg mod mentioned just previously?

[Nick - A2A]

Hmm - I'm still not sure. The last minute of the latest video (the only bit where you stayed off the toe brakes) seems to show no effective rudder control. Is there any surface wind active in the sim though?

Thanks,
Nick

[sloppysmusic]

"Can you post a video showing all your realism settings?"

including screen shot here.

[sloppysmusic]

And this is with or without the cfg mod mentioned just previously?

WITHOUT as default.

[sloppysmusic]

Realism settings

Cannot post screen shot here for some reason...

[sloppysmusic]

http://imgur.com/Tqz49Jp

[sloppysmusic]

"Hmm - I'm still not sure. The last minute of the latest video (the only bit where you stayed off the toe brakes) seems to show no effective rudder control. Is there any surface wind active in the sim though?"

Surely the tail wheel not turning the whole time is enough? Is it supposed to turn when rudder pedals used?

Mu understanding is its supposed to have FULL movement unlocked and 6 degrees or so locked?

Its showing no movement. Wind here was 10kts direct headwind. SHOULD make rudder itself more responsive.

[Nick - A2A]

Surely the tail wheel not turning the whole time is enough? Is it supposed to turn when rudder pedals used?

No, we can forget animations of the MDL file. It's the aircraft behaviour which is important.

Please can you try one more test? Load a default FSX aircraft at a default airport and make sure you use the clear skies weather theme. Then switch to the P-51 and start taxiing with RPM of around 1400-1500. (This should be sufficient to ensure some airflow over the rudder.) Try left and right turns with full rudder deflection (no toe brakes) and let us know if anything happens?

Thanks,
Nick

[sloppysmusic]

Ok. Nick will try that later.

[sloppysmusic]

"Please can you try one more test? Load a default FSX aircraft at a default airport and make sure you use the clear skies weather theme. Then switch to the P-51 and start taxiing with RPM of around 1400-1500. (This should be sufficient to ensure some airflow over the rudder.) Try left and right turns with full rudder deflection (no toe brakes) and let us know if anything happens?"

Did exactly that, even with different livery. Rudder pedals have no effect at all at 1500rpm full left/right nothing. Which is what I have been trying to say all along. Cant take off without rudder in a tail dragger. This one doesnt have rudder

Is there a debug mode i can turn on so we can see my control inputs on screen and also what is (not) being applied to aircraft model?

Is there anyone here using FSX Steam Edition as well as me?

[CodyValkyrie]

One thing I've noticed when looking at your FSX.cfg is that you have AccuFeel. Not sure this is relevant, but make sure to turn off AccuFeel for the Mustang. AccuSim handles everything AccuFeel would do, and there may be some conflicts if it's set up for the Mustang.

[sloppysmusic]

One thing I've noticed when looking at your FSX.cfg is that you have AccuFeel. Not sure this is relevant, but make sure to turn off AccuFeel for the Mustang. AccuSim handles everything AccuFeel would do, and there may be some conflicts if it's set up for the Mustang.

Thanks yes I can confirm I have it turned off in all 3 A2a accusim planes. I presume what you saw in fsx. Cfg was the general install of AccuFeel?

[CodyValkyrie]

Thanks yes I can confirm I have it turned off in all 3 A2a accusim planes. I presume what you saw in fsx. Cfg was the general install of AccuFeel?

Correct. I'm trying to find the culprit in oblique ways. If FSUIPC is registering the controller, and the axis points have been defined properly (which I'll assume you've done correctly), then you should indeed have full range of motion. If FSUIPC/FSX is seeing the device, and it looks fine in your hardware settings in Windows, I see no reason to investigate this avenue further. That leads me to believe there's a conflict, and/or there's some misunderstanding of how to control the aircraft during the takeoff run. I'll leave the latter to others to discuss.

Regarding tail wheel taxiing, let me discuss this shortly from the development side if I may. I was fairly involved in this process during beta testing, albeit I have no involvement in the coding. The real Mustang indeed has a fully steerable tail wheel with 6 degrees of motion on each side (total of twelve degree arc) when the stick is centered or aft. Forward of that, the tail wheel becomes fully castored. In the development, as Ian and others have discussed, this posed a problem. The current simulation makes a bit of a compromise. The wheel will always act as castoring, however when centered or aft of centered, you have six degrees on each side, while forward it gives you the full range. At least, that's my current understanding of how this works, and what I observed while testing. This is why braking, etc., works as you suggested. This should, however, not be part of the equation as to what your problem is, other than the wheel requires some air movement over the tail in order to work, as Ian mentioned.

Let me look at the latest video, and I'll see if I can add further comment.

[Nick - A2A]

Thanks for retesting the rudder effectiveness sloppysmusic. Can't think of any obvious additional troubleshooting steps at this point, other than those which I believe you've already tried (i.e clean reinstall and deleting the *log.dat file.)

Is there anyone here using FSX Steam Edition as well as me?

Yes, I use both the military and civilian P-51s in FSX-SE without any control problems. I also use FSUIPC and my hardware axes (Thrustmaster joystick and pedals) use the "send direct to FSUIPC Calibration" option which I see you use.

Hopefully we'll still get to the bottom of it...

The real Mustang indeed has a fully steerable tail wheel with 6 degrees of motion on each side (total of twelve degree arc) when the stick is centered or aft. Forward of that, the tail wheel becomes fully castored. In the development, as Ian and others have discussed, this posed a problem. The current simulation makes a bit of a compromise. The wheel will always act as castoring, however when centered or aft of centered, you have six degrees on each side, while forward it gives you the full range. At least, that's my current understanding of how this works, and what I observed while testing.

Thanks for the clarification on this Cody. Yes, that seems to fit in with what I've seen too. It would be useful if stuff like this made it into the POH as a footnote to the 'real' manual extracts.

Cheers,
Nick

[sloppysmusic]

Thanks Cody. As we are nailing down exact behavior and expectations here I need to confirm something 100%. i could find it in a RW manual but I need to confirm what sim does.

Are there any power lines, cables or hydraulics leading to the tail wheel? By 'steerable' are we talking as the plane exerts side forces, wheel turns to accommodate, more or less depending on the stick position?
If the plane (sim) was hung stationary off the ground inside a hanger would it be possible to turn/rotate/alter lateral position of tail wheel (with engine off no airflow)?

I have always presumed they were like grocery trolley wheels, unpowered but lockable/castered.

If it is a passive wheel, then it could be that the wheel is just locked straight the whole time? have to check that video again cant remember see it ever turn. I know in the RealAir Spit I can see it swing around during taxi.

If wheel is locked straight, it would take a major force such as engine torque or considerable airflow around rudder to push the plane off track. As torque comes before airflow here its always gonna win.

We must be so close to diagnosing, if not fixing the problem.
Like you say, if others wish to discuss technique they may do so but could they pause until we figure out why the rudder inputs in my case are not transmitted into the simplane physics first?