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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:34 pm 
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https://youtu.be/8ugbM1lzgtg

Problem solved indeed.

"The key is to remove the .dat file and also the P-51 update folder in your root sim folder inside the A2A folder you will find your aircraft update files. Simply remove the one for the P-51."

The problem with THAT is that it does not mention the civ version. There are TWO P51 folders. I deleted the military one before.
It also doesnt help when we are told to completely remove the plane and reinstall. Which NEVER fixes issue and becomes a never ending failure loop.

Why delete the dat and update folder? I read that and thought it would be better to remove the whole install (also a suggestion).

Install routines MUST be rewritten or a readme.first included for Civvy version:

1) Install P51
2) Install P51 Accusim
3) Go to your FSX/A2A/ directory you will see TWO P51 folders. Observe their contents
4) Run the global Accusim update (it will find your Civ install but NOT update it, doing a ghost update of non-existent MIL version instead.
5) NOW go back to those 2 folders mentioned in 3). There is an erroneous update.log in the MIL folder. An UPDATE folder in the Civ version folder will now exist. DELETE THIS FOLDER.
6) Run global AccuSim installer again and now it will find the Civ plane but actually install the updates this time!
7) Go fly this amazing plane.

It's not good practice for the customer to run an update install, delete half of what it does manually, then run it again in order for it to work. Not logical.
Doing the best practice thing of deleting everything and starting again will ALWAYS fail. This must be addressed surely?

I'm in a good mood after a bad week, but not in the mood to take blame for this episode. Not going to happen when the instructions I just wrote there would have fixed it.
If Lewis had added the word CIVILIAN to his post....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Congratulations! I predicted that you would solve it! Sorry that there was so much hassle along the way, but now you're on the road, so to speak. Very glad to see that you finally solved it. I have been lusting after the P-51D Civilian Mustang as well. Had a nice flight in my P-40 yesterday, which eased the yearning slightly. Seeing you finally get off the ground is reassuring. You now have many adventures ahead!

Seeya
ATB

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:07 pm 
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"Congratulations! I predicted that you would solve it!"

Thanks P! i feel sorry for the T6 now..it only got 2 flights before we fixed this!
(no worries T6 will be my chill flight before bed machine...!)

I was about to get the P40 myself today. I may still do so, I obviously have pdf overload right now, being a manual reading kind of person.
Now I dont think I will have any more issues with any more planes my credit card will start flexing soon.

Actually just completed my first short normal flight in the 'Tang. Definitely a handful but it really is a 'living and breathing' machine! Cross country hops later, need to start afresh and celebrate!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Well at least this thread is a great teacher for how to take off correctly in the P-51. :)
The P-40 is a whole different beast to the P-51 which is far more automated. Then there is the spitfire... I could go on. They are all so different in both their function and character.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:05 pm 
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sloppysmusic wrote:
"You can see the airplane starts to turn left, however, it took you a full three seconds to respond to this movement. In the real airplane and our sim, you need to respond to this in a fraction of a second and do so carefully and with anticipation. These high powered tail draggers are very challenging to and we program for that."

Please post the exact time of the moment you are talking about. My reactions in real life are superb BTW. My love of motorcycles, roller and ice skating, whilst avoiding murderous cars and kids at the rink can attest to this (I have excellent motor skills and hand/eye coordination).


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUsP-W65AFY&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Look at 1:55, the plane starts to turn left. About three seconds later, you start to apply right rudder (1:58), then you notice the plane does turn hard right, so your rudder was working fine. The moment that nose starts to move, you need to get the rudder right in there. If you are finding it easier to takeoff now, I suspect you are just benefiting from practice since you shot this video, this is pretty common for sim pilots who fly our planes for the first time. The T-6 may also have had a roll to play here on improving your skills and reaction time. This is what simulation is all about and it's great to see that you are enjoying the airplane.

Scott.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Scott - A2A wrote:
Look at 1:55, the plane starts to turn left. About three seconds later, you start to apply right rudder (1:58), then you notice the plane does turn hard right, so your rudder was working fine.

Scott,

Actually, if you watch all the vids linked by the OP, you'll see that the rudder was in fact inoperable* prior to the clean reinstall.

The reason the aircraft turns at the moment you describe is because the right toe brake was applied. (The use of toe brakes being one of the factors that obscured the issue with the rudder.)

Seems that a clean reinstall cleared-up the issue with the rudder and Accu-Sim damage being "N/A". I know this thread has become a little protracted, but though it worth clarifying this point.

Cheers,
Nick

*In aerodynamic terms I mean: the animations were playing as they should.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:45 pm 
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"Look at 1:55, the plane starts to turn left. About three seconds later, you start to apply right rudder (1:58), then you notice the plane does turn hard right, so your rudder was working fine."
Nope. As plainly obvious from 2:00 to 2:12 the right hard turn was made by the toe brakes only. Slamming the rudder pedal forward hard forward too is purely instinctive.
You can see the rudder pedal full down and toe going up and down at this point. It is at that point straight with FULL RIGHT RUDDER is should be spinning off to the right!!!!!

https://youtu.be/ZRAQetaqWh4

I even made a whole video showing it had no effect.

Then this one after finally getting update to work

https://youtu.be/8ugbM1lzgtg

Cant you SEE the difference between these? Is there anyone out there who who cannot also? Do you want me to install the plane FRESH on my back up machine, on video of course, showing how the failed accusim update leaves the plane with no steering. Then fixing the update fixing the steering? ie actually putting it there in the first place?
If you want me to do all that and explain WHY I am having to do that, what do I actually have to DO in the runway tests to show you something you already know and fixed with the update?

"I suspect you are just benefiting from practice, this is pretty common for sim pilots who fly our planes for the first time."

Yeh its amazing what practice can do aint it? 1 minute you are unable to make the rudder or tailwheel do anything and ACCUSIM shows NO DAMAGE-ACCUSIM NOT INSTALLED

Then you find the advice of others about a BLATANTLY BUGGED install script for the plane.

You delete files that shouldnt be there (you want me to post an install log accusim wrote for a plane I DONT AND HAVE NEVER OWNED?)

Then you run the sim and FOR THE FIRST TIME you see ACCUSIM DAMAGE ON.

so after all that 'PRACTICING', you somehow now have CONTROL OVER RUDDER AND TAILWHEEL.

Yes practice is AMAZING isn't it?

What exactly DID you fix below? Presumably after much 'practice' yourself? There have been a number of people on here who have been judged incompetent who claim to have no control whatsoever over this plane with this exact same description. After installing the update fixes themselves manually (as your install script is BUGGED for the Civvy without question) these folk magically appear to have 'practiced' something (according to you) during the bug fix/accusim updates that NOW WORK. Proof of the issue?
BEFORE ACCUSIM UPDATE MANUAL FIX ACCUSIM SAYS NO DAMAGE ACCUSIM NOT INSTALLED
AFTER ACCUSIM MANUAL FIX ACCUSIM SAYS DAMAGE ON-(INSTALLED)

The arrogance displayed here by treating loyal customers like idiots when THEY have fixed the plane themselves via the forums is astounding.

Image

WHAT DID YOU FIX ABOVE? Why do we need to apply this update?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:03 pm 
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"Seems that a clean reinstall cleared-up the issue with the rudder and Accu-Sim damage being "N/A". "\

Thanks! But anyone reading this MUST be warned thats not actually true. Clean installs are endless failure loops because of the bugged update install script that finds the civvy but instead installs the update to the non-existent military version folder.
It even leaves the log in the wrong directory saying plane is updated when its not!

Civvy owners HAVE to manually delete the UPDATE directory in the CIVVY folder AFTER running the update the first time.
Then they have to run the update again. No wonder this happens regularly to people. It is literally a software accident waiting to happen again and again for civvy owners without the military version.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:22 pm 
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sloppysmusic wrote:
Clean installs are endless failure loops because of the bugged update install script that finds the civvy but instead installs the update to the non-existent military version folder.
That's interesting, though by "clean install" I just mean reinstalling after manually deleting any leftovers that the installers have left.

Hopefully what you describe above will help the A2A devs troubleshoot any issues with the updater logic. I understand this issue is frustrating for you, but don't see the need for the ranty posts, especially after A2A refunded you the purchase price of the Mustang.

Thanks,
Nick


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:29 pm 
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'I understand this issue is frustrating for you, but don't see the need for the ranty posts, especially after A2A refunded you the purchase price of the Mustang.'

Nick,
i agree completely! It was a ranty post. After 11 pages of trying to get to the truth I finally had enough of being patronized. An A2A dev after the refund was granted said that the whole problem was caused by the aircraft being 'a mismatch for me' from the start.
It wasn't and isn't and wont be.
Then after the problem was proved beyond doubt AND a finite solution posted of exactly what to do to fix it the same dev stated there WAS no problem it was just me all the time, who had finally taken his advice and learned some skills from practicing, also with another aircraft (The T6 - which I purchased to prove beyond all doubt the Mustang was the problem. It was.).

Sometimes you have to drain the excess pressure in the system before something blows, as it says in the manual, and treat the plane with respect. A dev to his sim plane should be like a real life airline to their real life pilots (customers) and planes (products). If multiple people lease it and many say, I got problems with the rudder, you don't say, ah practice more, it's your fault. You ground the plane until its confirmed flyable. It is after all AccuSim here lets keep it real!

I will promise never to rant again in this thread UNLESS a dev says there was no problem all along it was all my amateur skills and laziness not practicing & RTFM etc. Then rant forth I shall! Deal?
:D


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:13 pm 
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Nick M wrote:
Actually, if you watch all the vids linked by the OP, you'll see that the rudder was in fact inoperable* prior to the clean reinstall.

The reason the aircraft turns at the moment you describe is because the right toe brake was applied. (The use of toe brakes being one of the factors that obscured the issue with the rudder.)


Ah OK, yes, you are correct. Sorry Sloppymusic, when I saw the nose move left and didn't see you react with rudder, then when you did move them the reaction of the airplane, I assumed this was just a case of slow reaction times which is very common with new Warbird pilots. I reactivated your Civilian mustang so you can keep it, on us, for the trouble.

Scott.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:13 am 
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Scott - A2A wrote:
I reactivated your Civilian mustang so you can keep it, on us, for the trouble.
Scott.

That's a bit harsh Scott! :D

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:19 am 
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So the fixed was a total clean install for a corrupt install?

I'm confused. Was it a simple case of removing the update folder and re-running the updater, as thats normally a part of a clean install which we had mentioned to do at the beginning?

thanks,
Lewis

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:28 am 
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Lewis - A2A wrote:
So the fixed was a total clean install for a corrupt install?

I'm confused. Was it a simple case of removing the update folder and re-running the updater, as thats normally a part of a clean install which we had mentioned to do at the beginning?

thanks,
Lewis


This correct solution was the first thing you recommended he do when you answered his initial post around 1000 postings ago.
All the rest of the postings including our suggestions concerning his rudder "technique" were based on belief that he had done as you suggested and it had not worked.
This entire thing was a non issue. There was a glitch concerning the rudder that was fixed with one of our updates. Had he followed your advice all this could have been avoided.
Dudley Henriques


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:12 am 
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sloppysmusic wrote:
'I understand this issue is frustrating for you, but don't see the need for the ranty posts, especially after A2A refunded you the purchase price of the Mustang.'

Nick,
i agree completely! It was a ranty post. After 11 pages of trying to get to the truth I finally had enough of being patronized. An A2A dev after the refund was granted said that the whole problem was caused by the aircraft being 'a mismatch for me' from the start.
It wasn't and isn't and wont be.
Then after the problem was proved beyond doubt AND a finite solution posted of exactly what to do to fix it the same dev stated there WAS no problem it was just me all the time, who had finally taken his advice and learned some skills from practicing, also with another aircraft (The T6 - which I purchased to prove beyond all doubt the Mustang was the problem. It was.).

Sometimes you have to drain the excess pressure in the system before something blows, as it says in the manual, and treat the plane with respect. A dev to his sim plane should be like a real life airline to their real life pilots (customers) and planes (products). If multiple people lease it and many say, I got problems with the rudder, you don't say, ah practice more, it's your fault. You ground the plane until its confirmed flyable. It is after all AccuSim here lets keep it real!

I will promise never to rant again in this thread UNLESS a dev says there was no problem all along it was all my amateur skills and laziness not practicing & RTFM etc. Then rant forth I shall! Deal?
:D


I've been following this thread with some degree of interest and keeping quiet for the most part but I think it's about time I set you straight on a few things.
First of all, from the onset of your issue you seemed to have convinced yourself that there was something wrong with either the Mustang's flight model or our updating system. Neither by the way was correct. You were having a rudder issue and because you had seen threads where others were having a rudder issue with the Mustang you assumed this was the problem and that you were "on to something" we at A2A had to correct. This then led to over 1000 postings with you going back and forth with people trying to help you in one way or the other.
You were at least partially right in that we did indeed have a problem with the Mustang's rudder that was fixed in one of our updates.
Going back to your initial post, Lewis, our "problem solver supreme" answered you telling you about the update folder and how to solve the issue. I have no idea what you did after that but the thread continued, only now people trying to help you assumed you had tried what Lewis had suggested and it didn't work for you. THAT was the reason people started to look at your rudder technique. No one was trying to make you look inept. We were trying to help you. BTW, your rudder use IS a bit too slow for a warbird as was proven out in your first flight in our T6 when you ground looped THAT airplane. So back off the bad words about our faulting your prowess and take a lesson from people who actually know a bit about flying these airplanes. Nuff said about that.
As for the Mustang, yes there was a rudder issue with the plane and that issue was resolved by an update. Lewis was correct with his advice and YOU have been wrong in your approach to solving this issue.
I have the EXACT same installation of the Civ Mustang that you do. I have no issues with the rudder as I have followed the correct procedure concerning updating. You noted other threads where people were having rudder issues with the Mustang. All these threads were showing you were some people who had not as yet solved their rudder issue by getting the fix included in the latest update at the time.
Know that all over the world there are literally thousands of people flying the A2A Civ Mustang who are NOT having the issue you have had with the aircraft. Your issue was local and had you followed Lewis' advice early on you would have solved the issue.
I'm sorry if I have sounded a bit harsh with this post to you and I am very happy your issue has been resolved, but make no mistake, resolution was NOT because of anything new that YOU discovered that "fixes" the Mustang. Your issue was resolved because you FINALLY got around to doing what Lewis suggested you do initially.
Hope this ends well and that instead of answering my post in anger you simply step back and reevaluate a bit and continue on enjoying being here with us as much as we would enjoy having you here.
Thank you
Dudley Henriques


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