P-51D cockpit build

Arguably the finest fighter aircraft of World War II.
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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Hello everyone

I’m working on another mod for my flight pit but right now that project is in the “well, that didn’t work” phase.

So, I took a little break from the pit. The clock on my desk recently gave up after one of the frequent power spike/surges that we “enjoy” here in Florida and yes, we have a whole house surge protector and everything else is OK.

The clock that died was not aviation related but did fit with the previous M&M racing sim. And, I still eat my share of M&M’s so it was not out of place in my hangar.

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I really liked the red digital display in the M&M’s clock so I went looking for something similar as a replacement. I finally decided on this one.

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But, that doesn’t fit the new aviation theme of the hangar so modifications were required! My wife rolled her eyes and left the room when she heard this.

I looked at a lot of vintage military and aviation equipment and decided on a “NAA desk clock”, just like I’m sure was on every P-51 engineer’s desk in the 40’s.

I did not want to take the clock workings out of the original case so I built a new cover for the clock using 1/8” plywood and sheet styrene. I reinforced the corners with 1/4” square styrene that would also receive the screws holding the back in place. The small hole in the bottom allows access for the backup battery and the larger top opening is metal mesh that allows access to the clock buttons.

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Trim was added to cover the panel seams.

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After painting the case a “military” color I bent 3/16” aluminum rod for handles, drilled holes and glued them in place.

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In this pic you can see the clock buttons through the top screen. Using a straightened paper clip I can change the settings without removing the clock from its new case.

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And, here is the finished case.

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Thanks for reading!

Take care
Ed
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If at first you do succeed, try not to look too surprised!

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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Hello everyone

My original stick was the Saitek AV8R which I bought due to it having a grip like a P-51. I was never really happy with the Saitek stick feel as the spring at the base offered little resistance and the movements within the sim were not smooth.

I have now replaced my Saitek AV8R with a Microsoft FFB stick which I got on eBay a year ago. I finally decided to take the plunge and make the conversion.

Extending a non FFB stick is pretty straight forward. But, as I researched the process of extending a FFB stick, I was reminded that geometry would come into play with the effect of leverage. I tested some temporary extensions and learned that with one long enough to give me the 24 ½” total height I needed the FFB could not be felt.

I found there are 2 primary ways to overcome this loss of FFB. One, solder more resistors on top of the originals, basically doubling the force generated by the motors. I was concerned about my soldering ruining the board and also about how long this conversion would last. The other option is to make the extension shorter, lessening the leverage effect, and that is what I chose. So, I could get the FFB I wanted but with a shorter stick I was concerned the throw would be lost.

Using the Saitek grip I installed supports for the MS board. That was a lot of trial and error, error, error........ But, I have all of the buttons working!

Here is the original Saitek grip and board, a pretty basic setup.

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This is the MSFFB grip with 2 CB’s. The small CB is for the buttons and hat and the longer CB is for the IR sensor and twist rudder. This stick uses mechanical motors attached to gears to provide FFB for its two main axes and uses optical sensors for the data. There are 2 small holes for the IR sensors, one at the base and one at the top on the front of the grip.

When you put your hand on the stick, your fingers block the sensors and this engages the motors. However, if you take your hand off the grip in flight you lose FFB and some have said that caused them to lose control of the plane. I will not be using the IR sensors or twist rudder and will cover that mod later in this update.

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The MS center post is smaller than the shaft extension I had previously made for the Saitek stick so an adapter was needed. So a trip to my favorite airplane parts suppliers, Lowe’s and Home Depot was required.

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In this pic you see a small inner PVC pipe that enlarges the original MS shaft. An outer PVC pipe coupler is secured around the FFB shaft. The green extension will fit between these two pieces of pipe.

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On the bottom of the coupler there is an insert the same diameter as the extension. This has a notch to match a tab on the MS shaft and that keeps the extension from turning on the shaft.

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I had to make several modifications to the Saitek grip to get the MS board installed with the buttons lined up. The wood block is the new lower MS CB support but I used the original Saitek support at the top. You can also see some clear plastic which is the new receiver for the MS hat button post. I also had to enlarge the opening in the grip to allow the MS hat enough room to move and activate the buttons.

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I used the wiring harness from my previous extension and soldered its wires to the MS board since both had 6 wires. The original green shaft extension was shortened for the new build and the grip mounted.

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During initial testing I was hoping to mount the Saitek grip on the MS base, without an extension or maybe a short one, by mounting the MS base on a pedestal. But this height test showed that the large MS base was going to block access to the radio and fuel gauges. Also access to the on/off buttons for the fuel gauge LCD’s mounted in the floor that are below the red box on the seat frame would be blocked. So it was time to make a new base for the FFB unit and mount it on a pedestal to achieve the correct height.

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Here is the MS base with the bottom removed. You can see why it has such a large footprint. Removing the components and placing the CB’s under the motors in a smaller box will give me a better fit in the pit.

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This is the motor component and you can see I’m testing the PVC inner pipe on the MS shaft.

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And here are the CB’s being tested in a smaller case.

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I removed the ring from the MS base with my Dremel tool. I will use this to mount the FFB motor unit.

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This is the underside of the ring. You can see where the four screws secure the white motor brackets to the ring

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Making the top for the new stick base with my Dremel using ¼” MDF.

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The groove cut in the above pic is where the round disc will be mounted.

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I have read that the motors can get hot so ventilation holes were cut into the bottom of the base. The 2 pieces were connected with nuts and bolts.

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Sides were cut from the same ¼” MDF material and secured.

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A small pedestal base was made and the base components painted and attached.

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Since I’m not using the MS grip I needed a work around function that had been provided by the IR sensors. The long board contains those connections as well as the twist rudder and that board will not be needed. In the pic below I have noted that the white and gray wires are for the IR connection.

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I then connected the white and gray wires on a toggle switch mounted in the bottom front of the base. With this I can turn off the motors if I will be out of the pit.

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The MS base had a LED. This blinked when the unit was connected to the PC via USB and was a solid green when plugged into electric. I drilled a small hole in the top of my new base and mounted the LED CB inside. The 2 tiny yellow dots are the LED’s.

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I found a green lens cover in my spares box that was just the right size so I dropped it in.

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I assembled the unit and it was ready for a test in the pit.

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I placed the unit in the pit. You can see the ventilation holes previously mentioned.

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The fuel and hydraulic controls are visible and accessible and you can see the green light at work.

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Now, was this FFB mod worth the cost and effort? Hel, err, HECK YES!

This is how I got the BK and FFB features working in P3D. I use REX and Active Sky for my weather but I bought OpusFSI v5 which is also a weather engine but has additional features. I turned the Opus weather off because the program has the ability to control up to 3 Buttkicker units and that is what I wanted. W10 has drivers for the MSFFB stick but not for the FFB function. So, I bought FSForce (thanks Vince!) which allows me to modify the FFB settings.

And, it works great! One of my initial concerns was the loss of throw with a shorter stick but the reduction is not really noticeable. I’m still tweaking the settings but I can feel the ground thumps as I taxi, the rumble as I head down the runway which stops as I lift off and the rumble and thump of the gear retracting in both my seat and stick. I could feel the force on the stick as I maneuvered so I gave it a real test flight.

With hurricane Dorian off our East coast I flew from Tampa to Port St. Lucie airport encountering many thunderstorms along the way that tossed the Mustang around. I could even feel the thunder in the stick and seat! That flight convinced me that I had made the right choice with this modification.

Thank you for your patience with this long post!

Take care
Ed
Last edited by Raceguy on 03 Jun 2022, 08:34, edited 1 time in total.
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If at first you do succeed, try not to look too surprised!

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hell yes Ed!

Quite the extra adventure and I wont lie as I was reading through it I was wondering what the outcome might end up being. Also hearing the groans and moans of ye'ole Sidewinder faithful as you dremel the old one to pieces :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Great to hear it turned out ok, not sure if it would get portrayed very well but could you video the stick in action, would it translate well to a video showing some FFB coming across?

cheers,
Lewis - A2A
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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Thanks Lewis!

Yeah, it was touch and go there for a while getting it built. It's a simple box that does not look right in the pit when viewed from the side but I can live with it when viewed while seated. But it gives me the FFB function I wanted.
I too cringed at cutting the Sidewinder base but felt it was the best way I could think of to mount the unit.

I will try to get a video of the FFB in action.

Take care
Ed
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Lewis - A2A
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Awesome sauce, look forward to seeing it in action again 8)

Also as a sim racer, I wanna know more about the car pit haha :lol:

cheers,
Lewis
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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Thanks Lewis

I'll try to make a video to see if the FFB movement would show.

Regarding my previous sim racer, what info do you need?

Take care
Ed

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Lewis - A2A »

So cool, was it just for oval racing then, what was your sim of choice?

cheers,
Lewis
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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Hi Lewis

I was in a NASCAR league (this was before iRacing) for several years so it was 95% ovals with a few road courses. We did add a Trans Am league that was all RC and that was fun!

The pit was built after one particular racing episode. We were running a RC and I ran off the road and crashed out. The next day I was driving my Suburban and taking a co-worker to lunch, that was also in the league, and he asked me about the crash. I was explaining that I went into the turn hot and as I turned the wheel and applied the brakes my office chair chose that moment to swivel causing me to crash. I stopped talking at that point and was looking around the front seat of my Suburban and he looked at me asking why I got quiet.

I told him that what I needed for racing was a fixed seat like my Suburban. He laughed and said "When I get to work tomorrow and the passenger seat is missing I'll know what you have done.

That weekend I went to a local car salvage yard and got a Mazda Miata seat and started building. When the car pit was done I showed pics to my co-worker and he laughed so I invited him to give it a try. When he arrived I took him to my basement workshop where the pit was set up and he really laughed. Being in the basement where noise was not an issue I had a 5.1 sound system connected with a headset for voice. He climbed in and when he started the engine the pit actually vibrated from the sub woofer. The look on his face was priceless and he wasn't laughing anymore.

I usually drove the M&M's car in our league but when we started allowing the members to customize their cars I painted mine like our local Dayton Dragons Class A minor league baseball team.

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Not every night ended with the best finish

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My custom ride in our truck league

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Our RC league

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My wife and I also visited several NASCAR tracks and drove the Petty cars.

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Take care
Ed
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If at first you do succeed, try not to look too surprised!

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Lewis - A2A »

I'm sorry, you drove the cars!?? Nice!

I'm more a road course guy but I did go up to A Class in iRacing when I dipped my toes in iRacing in order to learn Oval. As before I just didn't get the appeal of going around in circles in one gear lol :mrgreen: Love Oval now though and I did find the trucks the most fun/easiest for me to get into.

cheers,
Lewis
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percy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by percy »

Hello, great build on the mustang, I have one question, How do you keep the A2A control stick from blocking instrument view. I also have my own control stick but don't know how to keep A2A control stick from moving in front of lower instruments.
Percy

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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Hi Percy and thank you for your comment!

I usually fly with the forward view and rely on my own instruments for information.

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That said when I do use the virtual cockpit view my TrackIR lets me lean so I can see around the A2A stick.

Take care
Ed
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If at first you do succeed, try not to look too surprised!

percy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by percy »

Thank you
percy

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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Hello everyone

The radar warning lamp is something I have wanted to add to my pit for quite a while but I didn’t have enough information. I recently found this pic of the lamp that was installed in the P-82 restoration. So I reached out to Stang, who has fantastic P-51 plans here on the forum, to see if he had any information on the lamp dimensions and he came up with great drawings! Thanks Stang!

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It has never been my intention to use the lamp as in the real plane or the sim, but as a way to hide my TrackIR.
The location of my TIR is what gave me the idea to hide it in the lamp housing. The TIR works great here but is too visible.

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So, with plans in hand I started work on my TIR/Radar lamp project. I soon learned that making cone shapes is easy but to make them a particular size and shape is a challenge, at least for me.

I came up with this setup to help me create the shape. The PVC pipe on the right will be used for the core of the lamp housing and the PVC end cap on the left, when slid into position, helped shape the cone.

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The first cone using card stock.

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I trimmed excess material from the card stock to make a template for the metal cone.

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Thin aluminum, (purchased from my favorite aviation parts store Home Depot, which is sometimes used for roof edging material or the side of a P-51 sim cockpit), was cut to rough shape and formed on the PVC parts.

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To make the rings for the core I turned to MDF. First I drilled holes to match the core.

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Then cut out the circles, trimming and smoothing the outer edge.

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Here are the finished core parts.

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This is a pic of the original assembled components but I wasn’t happy with the shape of the cone. As I said, cones are not easy for me to make.

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I made another cone, the unpainted one below, that more resembles the real device and Stang’s plans. Compared to my first try you can see it is more flared and shorter which looks and works better for my TIR.

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With the components complete I struggled with how to mount the unit in a manner that would let me make adjustments as needed. I remembered a car mount bracket that came with an old external XM Radio device. So I went looking for that bracket, I never throw anything away, and was pleased it was the size and shape I remembered.

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And mounted to the unit.

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You can see the PVC pipe core that allows the USB cable from the TIR to pass through.

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To mount the TIR camera I used a 1 inch wood dowel, which is slightly smaller than the inside of the PVC pipe, to make a stem for the camera and an end cap. The groove in the long camera piece allows clearance for the USB cable in the PVC pipe and the Velcro on the end holds the TIR camera. This stem is not secured in the pipe so I can rotate the camera as needed to adjust the entire housing to level.

In the second pic you can see the rear cap with a groove for the cable and a hole for it to pass through. After painting I cut out a V shape to the hole in the cap and glued that small piece to the pipe. I then ran the USB cable through the pipe and installed the main cap.

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The completed unit mounted on the MIP shroud and ready for the P-51 to take to the air.

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Thank you for reading!

Take care
Ed
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If at first you do succeed, try not to look too surprised!

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Very creative way to hid the TrackIR sensor, love it haha 8) 8)

cheers,
Lewis
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Raceguy
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Re: P-51D cockpit build

Post by Raceguy »

Thanks Lewis!

Ed
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If at first you do succeed, try not to look too surprised!

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