Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

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Daube
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post Daube »

If I set the parking brakes, the aircraft sometimes tips over and breaks the prop.
That's why I started to always set parking brakes to OFF before starting the engine. In a multiplayer flight, it's better to move a bit forward than having to repair the plane (behavior is sometimes a bit messy when tipping over, with aircraft boucing around and not always reacting to the "Jacks" button...
Sometimes, with parking brakes set to ON, and stick fully pulled backwards, I can start without tipping over. But sometimes not.

I believe the throttle position also plays a role. I mentioned 7% earlier in the thread, and that's just the lowest possible value for the test. Usually, I start the engine with a slightly higher value, like 10 to 15%.

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post Lewis - A2A »

Awesome, thanks Daube for sticking with me during this. Managed to get it re-producible. Please use the workarounds for now, and we will look into the issue and update accordingly in the future.

thanks,
Lewis - A2A
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Daube
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post Daube »

Ah this is great news. Thanks a lot for your support! :)

fortunjj
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post fortunjj »

Daube wrote:Hi all,

I'm having a frequent issue with the Spitfire in P3Dv4.3, and it's becoming quite annoying.
When I start the engine, the plane wants to move forward as if it were at full power.
If my parking brakes or chocks are set, the plane will nose down and break its prop (and other engine parts).
I would like to know how I should proceed to prevent this.
I fly in multiplayer with two other guys using the Spitfire, and they also have the same issue, on the Mk.I or on both the MK.IIa and b.

This happens no matter if the RPM lever to 100% or 0%.
This happens no matter if the throttle lever is set to 0% (engine will just cough, then I advance the throttle and it starts) or at normal startup position (throttle just a bit forward, like 10%)
For the moment, we took the habit of starting the Spit with the stick full backwards and parking brake OFF, so our planes will all move forward 10 to 15 meters on startup until we manage to stop them without breaking the prop...

I pointed out this EXACT issue a month and a half ago. In fact, you responded to it and agreed that it is a problem. Why has it taken so long to be acknowledged as a BUG and NOT operator error? This is the one single issue that has prevented me from truly enjoying this plane. For the moment, I have given up on it. It is very frustrating to continually smash the prop almost every time it is started (or is left running). Pretty much no matter what I do (and yes, I have tried all of the suggestions that Nick made in the thread I started earlier), I will have to repair the prop on about 50 percent of starts. And it is also a BUG that this has to be reset using slew mode. This makes NO sense! The plane should NOT be bouncing up and down repeatedly smashing the prop when this happens. I'm hoping that this issue is fixed at some point. Put simply, I really want to purchase the P40 because I really like A2A planes. But until this is fixed I have NO confidence in any other A2A taildraggers.

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post Lewis - A2A »

fortunjj wrote: I pointed out this EXACT issue a month and a half ago. In fact, you responded to it and agreed that it is a problem. Why has it taken so long to be acknowledged as a BUG and NOT operator error? This is the one single issue that has prevented me from truly enjoying this plane. For the moment, I have given up on it. It is very frustrating to continually smash the prop almost every time it is started (or is left running). Pretty much no matter what I do (and yes, I have tried all of the suggestions that Nick made in the thread I started earlier), I will have to repair the prop on about 50 percent of starts. And it is also a BUG that this has to be reset using slew mode. This makes NO sense! The plane should NOT be bouncing up and down repeatedly smashing the prop when this happens. I'm hoping that this issue is fixed at some point. Put simply, I really want to purchase the P40 because I really like A2A planes. But until this is fixed I have NO confidence in any other A2A taildraggers.
Sorry you feel that way, given we have nailed it down to a load issue, have you tried the basic workarounds to correctly load into the sim?

thanks,
Lewis - A2A
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fortunjj
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post fortunjj »

Lewis - A2A wrote:
fortunjj wrote: I pointed out this EXACT issue a month and a half ago. In fact, you responded to it and agreed that it is a problem. Why has it taken so long to be acknowledged as a BUG and NOT operator error? This is the one single issue that has prevented me from truly enjoying this plane. For the moment, I have given up on it. It is very frustrating to continually smash the prop almost every time it is started (or is left running). Pretty much no matter what I do (and yes, I have tried all of the suggestions that Lewis made in the thread I started earlier), I will have to repair the prop on about 50 percent of starts. And it is also a BUG that this has to be reset using slew mode. This makes NO sense! The plane should NOT be bouncing up and down repeatedly smashing the prop when this happens. I'm hoping that this issue is fixed at some point. Put simply, I really want to purchase the P40 because I really like A2A planes. But until this is fixed I have NO confidence in any other A2A taildraggers.
Sorry you feel that way, given we have nailed it down to a load issue, have you tried the basic workarounds to correctly load into the sim?

thanks,
Lewis - A2A
Yes, I have - and I can get it up to about 50 percent success rate overall. The success rate is higher IF I can quit the sim in a known state with the throttle relatively low and I load it running. Even then, it is iffy because one has to quickly arrest the forward motion depending on the setting of the throttle and that may result in a nose over. If the sim crashed or the plane crashed before I could set the throttle low enough then all bets are off on the next start. I still say this should have been an easy fix... why can this plane not be spawned sitting on the runway (or at the gate) with the throttle at a reasonable setting and the parking brake on? Why must these 2 parameters be dependent on the last state of the sim? This has NOTHING to do with "realism" at this point as planes don't magically "exist" with the engines running anyway. So I'm not sure why you are holding on to this "preserved state" for every parameter. This mode is provided for convenience for more casual users that are quite willing to relinquish a bit of "realism".

In any case, if I, on the other hand, start it C&D then autostart often results in the problem in this thread. I'm completely good with it being a loading issue - and it may well be an issue with P3D. None of that matters. What is important here is to have a methodology that isn't too onerous that will GUARANTEE a consistent start without smashing the prop - repeatedly.

The crux of the matter is that I have "correctly" loaded hundreds of aircraft into the sim (including other A2A ones) to allow for probably about 500 flight hours in P3d - a bit more in X-Plane (which isn't a huge amount, I get that, but I'm not new to this). This particular one is problematic. Therefore, there is a BUG that is preventing a consistent starting state. A bug is simply something that makes the software deviate from its spec. I can only assume that it isn't your intention that on startup the plane immediately smashes the prop and bounces up and down repeatedly. So we have a bug. It may be in the spit, it may be in P3D, or it may be an unintended consequence of how they interact. That you have been able to replicate it is a fantastic first step.

I'm tempted to buy the P-40 anyway in the hope that the plane is less sensitive to nose over because I don't see any issues with that on the forum. I enjoy the challenge of these tail draggers in P3D. They are generally problematic in X-Plane.

Edit: So I bought the P-40 and, IMHO, this plane is excellent! NO problems with startup - it doesn't lurch forward and smash the prop. Even if I do something dumb and cause it to nose over it doesn't go into a repeated mode of destruction. If I start it running with the throttle too high the P-40 will tend to run away but I can still easily get it back under control. In other words, I don't have every second start attempt ending in the maintenance hangar! My suspicion of what is wrong with the spit is that it is (of course) very sensitive to a nose over - so sensitive that it is difficult to get it started without it nosing over using whatever strategy you have used in the past for maintaining state across re-loads.
Last edited by fortunjj on 12 Dec 2018, 17:48, edited 2 times in total.

clarkejw
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post clarkejw »

Lewis,

If it's a load issue, why doesn't it happen to me, and I would guess, many of the other Spitfire owners? I get into a C&D Spitfire, start it, warm it, taxi carefully, and then take off. The aircraft is not set as a default, as we've been told not to do, and all seems well, with me, at least, in P3Dv4.4.

I will admit to some of the later updates making it a little "twitchier" on takeoff, but I put that down to the aircraft coming ever closer to the real thing. I did a refresher course. An hour or so on Ant's Tiger Moth, and a couple of hours on the A2A Harvard, then I was signed off on the Spitfire!

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post Lewis - A2A »

clarkejw wrote:Lewis,

If it's a load issue, why doesn't it happen to me, and I would guess, many of the other Spitfire owners? I get into a C&D Spitfire, start it, warm it, taxi carefully, and then take off. The aircraft is not set as a default, as we've been told not to do, and all seems well, with me, at least, in P3Dv4.4.
This is how I know its a load bug, because it doesn't happen to everyone but a small user base who are loading and re-loading a particular way, hence the work around to get around the bug before it gets an update. I also know because of the way we can get it reproducible on the system is to re-load a certain way without restarting the flight and or sim.

thanks,
Lewis
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clarkejw
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post clarkejw »

Aha! Thanks for the explanation.

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Paughco
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Re: Spitfire jumps forward on engine startup on P3Dv4.3

Post Paughco »

Have you tried putting the ground crew guys on the horizontal stabilizer before starting?
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