Aircraft unusable - deleted

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fortunjj
Airman
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Joined: 06 Oct 2018

Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post fortunjj »

First, I would like to say that I really like your aircraft. They, in general, set an unmatched record for quality in P3D. However, this aircraft is a dud - simply because it is not usable. I have had pretty much every problem mentioned on this forum - from an uncontrollable aircraft on takeoff, to the aircraft tipping over and destroying the prop in an endless loop when starting with the engines running to not being able to reset the aircraft to an acceptable state without a restart of the sim to the most recent problem - no maintenance hanger access under ANY circumstances - shift f7 simply does not work, even when the aircraft is started cold and dark.

At this point I give up. This airplane is simply so riddled with bugs that is beyond fixable. Oddly, others have managed to look past these issues and use this aircraft despite its enormous flaws. These flaws have been described by many others - i.e. they are very likely intrinsic - so it isn't just me.

I do hope that at some point these issues will be ironed out and I will be able to start this aircraft in a stable state and get it down the runway and in the air in a reasonable manner. As it stands, this simply cannot be done with the airplane in it's current state.

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Oracle427
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Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post Oracle427 »

Have you tried shift-7 to get into the hangar? Shift-F7 is not correct. If the aircraft is damaged it may be impossible to control.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel

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Nick - A2A
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Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post Nick - A2A »

Hello fortunjj - welcome to the A2A forums.

We'd always prefer people to post here and ask for assistance instead of declaring that the product in question is a "dud" or "unusable".

If you'd like us to help you try to troubleshoot whatever issues you're encountering, we're happy to do so. However, please let us know exactly which version of Prepar3D you're using along with other relevant info such as any other add-ons you may have installed.

Thanks,
Nick

P.S. As Oracle427 says, it's the Shift 7 ket combo which will access the hangar by default, not Shift F7.

fortunjj
Airman
Posts: 17
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Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post fortunjj »

Thank you for the reply... The f7 was a typo. This is not my first A2A aircraft over the years... In fact, I just recently purchased your V35B and IMHO this is one of, if not the best GA plane of any sim - and I do use both P3D (V 4.3) and X-Plane.

Not sure I'm up for troubleshooting this one, TBH. If it were one thing like the missing maintenance, I'd give it a shot. But it is many things. My guess is that removing the .dat and starting from scratch would fix the maintenance problem - but that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Smashing the prop immediately and ending up in an endless loop when not starting from cold and dark is a big problem. The issue here, I think, is that if P3D is set to ignore crashes and damage (as I - and many others - usually have it set because P3D's crash and damage detection is borked), the plane will not settle into a stable state after a nose-over - which happens immediately on an auto-start. There is a simple answer to this, of course - just start cold and dark. Many times, however, I just don't want to do that. Now, with respect to aircraft stability on takeoff, I was going to try full right rudder trim (as I have used on the Milviz Corsair - another fine plane), but, alas, with the aforementioned problems, I can't at the moment :) In fact, it was at that point that I simply gave up.

So, why did I post here? Well, I'm quite sure others are experiencing the same frustrations. I am simply suggesting that it might be worthwhile to cut one's losses. I don't think the aforementioned issues are a high priority to be fixed, because I don't think they fit the most common use case for A2A aircraft - which is cold and dark start with P3D crash and damage detection ON. Further, the same folks that fit the aforementioned use case are tolerant of the "quirky" (to put it mildly) takeoff roll (again, I use X-Plane regularly - I'm used to squirrly ground handling, but this is something else...). Anyway, maybe the above is of use to some when considering this aircraft.

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bladerunner900
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Location: South Wales

Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post bladerunner900 »

Hi fortunjj.

I've been flying the A2A Accu-sim Spitfire since she first became available for FSX. Suffice to say that I've had her flying in FSX and P3D v2 - v4 with no problems. But yes, the big change came in the new P3D v4 version, after an update. It totally caught me out at first and yes I was surprised and upset with the change.

She was totally uncontrollable on the ground. She reminded me of how the Mustang can be and that's the key. The update threw in loads more P-factor and torque action/reaction. In the air she is just as before. But I had to totally revise my cavalier attitude and get serious with taxiing and take-off. By all accounts, historically, she is a "real bitch on the ground" so I guess it's about time that was modeled in this A2A version.

About that endless loop, smashing the prop. I had a bad habit of quiting the sim while in the air with the Spitfire. This proved to be disastrous on next sim start up and loading the Spitfire. The throttle would still be opened, the brakes were on and, yes you can guess the rest. Momentarily hitting the Y key and opening and closing the throttle breaks the loop for me. So now, if I have to shut down while in the air I close the throttle and wait for her to react in sim first.

Sorry for going on a bit but I'm a bit passionate when it comes to the Spitfire. Just had Ventura Publications "Spitfire THE ANZACS" delivered so looking forward to reading that.

Cheers and, "Damned good show old boy"

Steve.
"Patience young Grasshopper!"
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Nick - A2A
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Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post Nick - A2A »

Thanks for the reply fortunjj,

For what it's worth, I've always used the Spit with the C&D option off and I typically have crash detection disabled too because of the ever-present risk of crashes with stray scenery bounding boxes. And I certainly don't seem to have encountered the issues you're describing.

As you say, there's probably a solution that is rather simple (delete the *.dat file) but we certainly won't force you to try this. :)

If you do give the Spit another go though, Steve's advice on the handling is well worth a read. I also found that with the recent update to the yaw stability I had to approach the way I handled the aircraft on the ground very differently. Tricks picked up from flying the Accu-Sim T-6 were certainly handy here: for example keeping back pressure on the stick until airspeed over the tailplane is sufficient to provide directional stability is a big help. In general, handling on the ground just requires a deal more finesse in terms of rudder input to prevent pilot-induced oscillation and resultant tottering around on that narrow-track landing gear.

As always, we'll do our best to help whenever asked.

Thanks,
Nick

clarkejw
Senior Airman
Posts: 172
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Location: Maitland, NSW Australia

Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post clarkejw »

I agree with Nick, however I fly it with the C&D option on. Might I suggest buying the T-6, (a magnificent aircraft in its own right) and training up to the Spitfire, the way it was done.
I have to say, I've had nowhere near the trouble you've been having, and I fly it in P3Dv4.

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Daube
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Location: Nice, France

Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post Daube »

About the SHIFT+7 window (maintenance hangar) that refuses to work, a friend of mine had this problem back in FSX.
The plane was correctly installed, SimConnect was installed as well, the Accusim core update was installed as well, but the hangar refused to remove the red label preventing access.
A2A was never able to solve the problem, unfortunately. :/
Several years later he switched to P3Dv4 and bought the Spitfire again, and fortunately this time everything works well.

Concerning the aircraft tipping forward on startup, this is a bug that has been reported by a few other users and it was also happening with the FSX version, if I'm not mistaken.
I fly the Spitfire with two other pilots (including the one mentioned above) in networks flights using JoinFS. We ALL have that very same problem: sometimes, for unknown reason, the Spit wants to jump forward on startup, as soon as the engine starts.
We now took the habit of disabling the parking brakes and wheel chocks, and keeping the stick full backwards, before starting the engine. Doesn't look pretty, but we're quite sick of breaking the prop and bearings each time we start a flight...

clarkejw
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Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post clarkejw »

And trim fully back as well as stick back, I presume.

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post Lewis - A2A »

Sorry to hear of your issues, if you wish to do some basic troubleshooting let us know. Assuming everyone has the same issues, as you can see from these very forums is not correct, not to mention the flight training spitfire sim might be failing a bit if your issues where widespread and we would have some very upset actual Spitfire training pilots.

We are here and happy to help if you wish to set up your sim correctly to load the aircraft.

thanks,
Lewis - A2A
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fortunjj
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Posts: 17
Joined: 06 Oct 2018

Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post fortunjj »

See the post from Daube above regarding the aircraft jumping forward and smashing the prop. The problem is exactly as mentioned... it is erratic. There isn't a "proper way" to avoid this. I suspect that it does have to do with the last state that the sim was left in. But that is the thing... there MUST be times when the sim is left in an unknown state - because it DOES crash at times during flight.

In fact, there is a way to avoid the problem - simply start the aircraft cold and dark - which is, I'm sure, exactly what MOST have done. For the few that aren't doing this, they may have simply been lucky that the last state the sim was left in hasn't caused a problem. As a result, I don't think ALL folks have these issues. It would also explain why your pilot trainees are not running into the aforementioned problem. Surely they would routinely start from C&D, yes?

I will try this once more, because the one thing that MAY work to break the cycle of smashing the prop is to enter slew mode (why this is the case I have no idea). If I were new to flight sims, I would, obviously, be concerned that I had done something wrong in configuring this aircraft. However, after configuring 50 or so payware aircraft between P3D and X-Plane and never having a problem of this kind (where the aircraft ends up in an endless loop of destruction), I'm pretty confident it isn't just my setup...

Once this and the maintenance hangar bug is sorted out, I can finally get to figuring out how to get this bird in the air :).


Edit... Quick update. After a reinstall and a deletion of the .dat files, the maintenance hangar is working. The serious bug regarding the endless loop on start with an unavoidable nose-over remains. The advice above of entering slew mode to break the loop makes this workable but I would still say this aircraft is close to being more trouble than it is worth. Perhaps someone can answer why slew mode resolves this bug? That may help troubleshoot similar problems. Interestingly, once I got the aircraft fixed, it is actually quite easy to handle on takeoff. The trick does seem to be some up elevator.

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post Lewis - A2A »

Hello,

before going into assumptions of what you think might be happening it would be best to perform some actual factual support troubleshooting step by step to find out where the issue lay.

If you are willing to perform some testing to help get this issue solved for you so you are up and flying with the rest of the Spitfire P3Dv4 pilots here flying just fine let us know.

thanks,
Lewis - A2A
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fortunjj
Airman
Posts: 17
Joined: 06 Oct 2018

Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post fortunjj »

There isn't much to discuss with respect to the use case that precipitates the bug of the loop that smashes the prop. Basically, you start the plane in a running state. If you don't happen to have the brakes on, it will start to roll immediately. If you put the brakes on at that point, it will tip over and smash the prop. Then, because crash detection is off, the plane will bounce up and down, repeatedly smashing the prop in an endless loop. Entering slew mode breaks the loop. If you can catch the roll fast enough, you can throttle down before you are half-way down the runway and then apply the brakes and it *might* not tip over.

So it is pretty simple... the plane is very sensitive to applying the brakes. This I get - it is prone to tipping over. The problem is that once it does, it goes into an endless loop which is frustrating - although less so now that I know to use slew mode (?!) to break the loop. Why I lost the maintenance hangar is a mystery - but it is fixed now. Still, I can pretty much guarantee that I have to smash the prop and repair it at least once before I can get underway and basically there is nothing I can do about it.

I spent $50 US for this plane so I am, of course, interested in improving my experience with this plane through some troubleshooting. My point, which I stand by, is that this plane was frustrating to use out of the box for me (and I trust that my setup is working correctly given the lack of problems with tens of other aircraft). The thing is, the problems were not with flying the aircraft - that is a challenge I was expecting, and frankly hoping for). The problems were such that it was impossible to reliably get to the point where I could fly the airplane when starting from a running state.

speedy70
Senior Master Sergeant
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Location: Devon,UK

Re: Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post speedy70 »

You say too much and listen too little.

As a very happy A2A customer owning all their products there is nothing wrong with any of them.

You will not be happy until you accept that the fault lies with you not A2A.

Cooperate with Nick and Lewis and your problems will be solved.

This is one of the friendliest and most honest forums you will find.

Rant on and you will only be accepted as someone who is not willing to learn.

To sum up there is nothing wrong with A2A or their products but there is a lot wrong with your attitude.

Regards chris

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Jacques
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Aircraft unusable - deleted

Post Jacques »

Hey Fortunjj,

You are asking the aircraft to do something it was not designed to do- starting from a running start, I mean.

If you absolutely MUST do that...perhaps you could take the time to start it, warm it up, throttle it back to a reasonable running state that is not full power but more of an idle, and then save that as a scenario. Mark your throttle control so you know where to put it before the scenario begins. I don’t know if this is possible and, if it is, I don’t know what sort of consequences you might suffer accusim wise as a result of doing this.

Regardless, starting with full power or anything above a smooth idle, with the brakes on, is going to end the same way you’ve experience most of the time.


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