Primer Pump and Battery

[CPDST]

Hi Guys,

First of all - congratulations!! you have done a most splendid job on the Spitfire

Secondly, sometimes (randomly) after starting up the spit, the primer will not pump - when I left click it the pump unscrews, then when I left click it again, it screws back in, but does not pump. Right clicking also screws it in. This happens on both Marks Also, in the Mark 1, the starter button stays in after you have started the engine.

Thirdly - where is the battery switch, surely in the real spit the battery was not on the whole time? Im miss the ability to turn on and of the battery as well as recharge it from my B-17. Do you think in the SP you could add a battery on/off switch as well as a battery charge button on the loadout panel?

Thanks again for this great add-on,

Cheers,
Craig Tatley

[CodyValkyrie]

Thirdly - where is the battery switch, surely in the real spit the battery was not on the whole time? Im miss the ability to turn on and of the battery as well as recharge it from my B-17. Do you think in the SP you could add a battery on/off switch as well as a battery charge button on the loadout panel?

Actually, in a way it is on the whole time. As long as nothing is draining it, then it should be fine for the most part. The generator charges the battery when the engine is running. You have to keep an eye on the battery in the maintenance hangar, but if you care for it, such as starting with the Acc Cart with the MK1a, she'll last you a while. Just the way it was and is mate.

[Killratio]

Absolutely correct Cody.

Part of daily inspection was to check voltage across each cell..if less than 2.1V then the Accumulator (a type of battery) was removed and replaced.

Darryl

[lonewulf47]

Craig,

To answer the first part of your query (which has been omitted by my colleagues ... ):
The primer is not working when the engine is detected to be running. It will simply screw in and out on both mouse buttons as you properly observed. During a start attempt the start button will remain in as long as the engine is not running. This has been decided to be a helpful feature as you might need to prime during engine start - especially on the electric starter of the Mk. I. You would simply run out of hands when trying to achieve this with the mouse...
The fact that the button also remains in on the Mk. II also points to an unsuccessful engine start. So as a conclusion: when the engine does not fire up on the first cartridge of the Coffman starter be sure to hit the start button again to release it. Otherwise when loading a fresh cartridge into the starter it will fire immediately.

Oskar

[Nico081]

Hi,

but where is the Main Battery switch?

[Krycekuk]

Hi,

but where is the Main Battery switch?

There isn't one. If all the electrical systems are turned off (lights, pitot heat etc etc) then nothing remains to drain the battery other then normal losses across the cells which would accelerate depending on battery condition and temperature.

[Nico081]

Hi,

but where is the Main Battery switch?

There isn't one. If all the electrical systems are turned off (lights, pitot heat etc etc) then nothing remains to drain the battery other then normal losses across the cells which would accelerate depending on battery condition and temperature.

Thanks.
How was that operated in the reality first spitfires? While not in Operation i could imagine the main battery electrical connector was disconnected from the main battery? If Yes that would be a nice to have as an option in controls-menue or maintenance hangar.

[CPDST]

So is the primer pump meant to stay locked in after a start?

Also it only happens randomly, ie sometimes it stays locked, other times it works normally.

[CodyValkyrie]

Thanks.
How was that operated in the reality first spitfires? While not in Operation i could imagine the main battery electrical connector was disconnected from the main battery? If Yes that would be a nice to have as an option in controls-menue or maintenance hangar.

A battery switch "essentially" does the same thing as not having anything turned on. If the battery switch on a normal aircraft is flipped OFF, the battery is taken out of the circuit to ensure that nothing can interact with it.

Think of it like your TV. Your TV is always plugged in, but when it is off, is it still taking energy? The battery on a Spitfire is an "as needed" system. It was considered periodic maintenance to simply check the accumulator (battery) before the pilot took to the air. Many modern planes remove the battery from the circuit in the form of a switch. In this circumstance, you could have the landing light, strobe or other miscellaneous items on, and the second you flipped the switch they would (or should) generally turn off. In a Spitfire, it is just routine to ensure that nothing is draining the battery (lights, etc) before walking away, and to check the battery in maintenance and when you first climb in her.

Another interesting example is a car. A car does not have a battery switch. However when the key is pressed into the ignition and turned, the circuit is made complete, thus allowing the car to start.

So is the primer pump meant to stay locked in after a start?

Also it only happens randomly, ie sometimes it stays locked, other times it works normally.

It best for me to let someone else answer this with authority.

[Nico081]

Thanks.
How was that operated in the reality first spitfires? While not in Operation i could imagine the main battery electrical connector was disconnected from the main battery? If Yes that would be a nice to have as an option in controls-menue or maintenance hangar.

A battery switch "essentially" does the same thing as not having anything turned on. If the battery switch on a normal aircraft is flipped OFF, the battery is taken out of the circuit to ensure that nothing can interact with it.

Think of it like your TV. Your TV is always plugged in, but when it is off, is it still taking energy? The battery on a Spitfire is an "as needed" system. It was considered periodic maintenance to simply check the accumulator (battery) before the pilot took to the air. Many modern planes remove the battery from the circuit in the form of a switch. In this circumstance, you could have the landing light, strobe or other miscellaneous items on, and the second you flipped the switch they would (or should) generally turn off. In a Spitfire, it is just routine to ensure that nothing is draining the battery (lights, etc) before walking away, and to check the battery in maintenance and when you first climb in her.

Another interesting example is a car. A car does not have a battery switch. However when the key is pressed into the ignition and turned, the circuit is made complete, thus allowing the car to start.

So is the primer pump meant to stay locked in after a start?

Hi again,
you are absolutely right, but, in real life aircraft maitenance at this kind of maintenace- intensive aircraft you disconnect the main battery source when you go into the hangar. This to avoid unintentional operation of systems while doing post flight inspection, cleaning, etc. If you have defective wiring or broken/faulty switches, corrosion, leakage circuit you and the aircraft could get massive problems. This simple electic system witt no protection units or circuit brakers you are well advised to disconnect your main battery

[lonewulf47]

So is the primer pump meant to stay locked in after a start?
Also it only happens randomly, ie sometimes it stays locked, other times it works normally.

Yes, the primer pump has to be locked after engine start. For the second part of your observations you should be a bit more specific. As I tried to describe above there is a certain logic behind the primer pump behaviour:

Engine detected running -> primer pump inhibited. Left or right mouseclick will lock/unlock
Engine detected not running -> left click will unlock/prime, right click will lock

Observe the starter button. This is a means to detect whether the engine is considered running or not. As long as the button is IN you should be able to prime. As soon as it pops out primer is inhibited and any mouse click will lock it.

Oskar

[Nico081]

Thanks.
How was that operated in the reality first spitfires? While not in Operation i could imagine the main battery electrical connector was disconnected from the main battery? If Yes that would be a nice to have as an option in controls-menue or maintenance hangar.

A battery switch "essentially" does the same thing as not having anything turned on. If the battery switch on a normal aircraft is flipped OFF, the battery is taken out of the circuit to ensure that nothing can interact with it.

Think of it like your TV. Your TV is always plugged in, but when it is off, is it still taking energy? The battery on a Spitfire is an "as needed" system. It was considered periodic maintenance to simply check the accumulator (battery) before the pilot took to the air. Many modern planes remove the battery from the circuit in the form of a switch. In this circumstance, you could have the landing light, strobe or other miscellaneous items on, and the second you flipped the switch they would (or should) generally turn off. In a Spitfire, it is just routine to ensure that nothing is draining the battery (lights, etc) before walking away, and to check the battery in maintenance and when you first climb in her.

Another interesting example is a car. A car does not have a battery switch. However when the key is pressed into the ignition and turned, the circuit is made complete, thus allowing the car to start.

Hi again,
you are absolutely right, but, in real life aircraft maitenance at this kind of maintenace- intensive aircraft you disconnect the main battery source when you go into the hangar. This to avoid unintentional operation of systems while doing post flight inspection, cleaning, etc. If you have defective wiring or broken/faulty switches, corrosion, leakage circuit you and the aircraft could get massive problems. This simple electic system with no protection units or circuit brakers you are well advised to disconnect your main battery

[CodyValkyrie]

Hi again,
you are absolutely right, but, in real life aircraft maitenance at this kind of maintenace- intensive aircraft you disconnect the main battery source when you go into the hangar. This to avoid unintentional operation of systems while doing post flight inspection, cleaning, etc. If you have defective wiring or broken/faulty switches, corrosion, leakage circuit you and the aircraft could get massive problems. This simple electic system witt no protection units or circuit brakers you are well advised to disconnect your main battery

I can appreciate that, as I was a former maintainer in the USAF.

However, whether or not they did that on these aircraft, I'll leave to the experts. I do know however that prior to use, these aircraft accumulators were tested on a consistent basis. This is also why they used accumulator trolleys for starting, for the health of the onboard accumulator.

[Nico081]

Hi again,
you are absolutely right, but, in real life aircraft maitenance at this kind of maintenace- intensive aircraft you disconnect the main battery source when you go into the hangar. This to avoid unintentional operation of systems while doing post flight inspection, cleaning, etc. If you have defective wiring or broken/faulty switches, corrosion, leakage circuit you and the aircraft could get massive problems. This simple electic system witt no protection units or circuit brakers you are well advised to disconnect your main battery

I can appreciate that, as I was a former maintainer in the USAF.

However, whether or not they did that on these aircraft, I'll leave to the experts. I do know however that prior to use, these aircraft accumulators were tested on a consistent basis. This is also why they used accumulator trolleys for starting, for the health of the onboard accumulator.

Nice, so you understand what i mean because you have real maintenance expirience, like me
Ok i don´t know which mantenance staff support your developement, maybe an experienced Spitfire mechanic, so negligible my words.
My request is only a suggestion which at first struck me. Your FSX accusim products are the best, that is why i have all of them. You are working at an realy high level of details i have never see before, so you get high level requests

[Killratio]

There are dummy terminal blocks in the Accumulator compartment. These were used to connect the wiring harness to whenever an Accumulator was not "in residence".

The standard RAF daily training films make no mention of use OTHER than when the Accumulator had been taken out. The way in which the inspection is carried out as per the film would make it unlikely that it was disconnected.

What happened "on Squadron" after the first time some Ack (or Pilot) knocked a switch on and left it on, I can't vouch for......

Darryl