water in the fuel??

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water in the fuel??

Post by cessna lover »

i was wondering if this is simulated the A2A planes? i check the fuel before my flights but i never seem to find any water which is a good thing. because i know that in the real world that water in the fuel is never a good thing. is it a rare occurrence to find water in the tanks? unless the fuel cap seals are junk there should never be water there right? if that's not simulated it's ok

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AKar
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by AKar »

In reality, the fuel tanks vent to the atmosphere, so it is not uncommon for water to end up in the tanks in some quantities. How the plane is stored and the local climate do make a difference.

I think it can happen in A2A airplanes as well, yes.

-Esa

cessna lover

Re: water in the fuel??

Post by cessna lover »

AKar wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 07:01 In reality, the fuel tanks vent to the atmosphere, so it is not uncommon for water to end up in the tanks in some quantities. How the plane is stored and the local climate do make a difference.

I think it can happen in A2A airplanes as well, yes.

-Esa
ah ok thank you. i would not ask to see a real fuel sample contaminated with water. but if this is simulated in the planes that you can check the fuel in what would i be looking for?? and how do you get it out if it is the virtual plane?

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Tug002
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by Tug002 »

I have found water in the fuel once in the A2A 172, along with other occurrences such as an engine fire on the B-17 a run away turbo blown cylinder and the list goes on with my other A2A aircraft so I suggest that you do a good preflight or you may be surprised by what might happen while flying.

Keep smiling
Tug :)

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MkIV Hvd
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by MkIV Hvd »

cessna lover wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 07:56 ah ok thank you. i would not ask to see a real fuel sample contaminated with water. but if this is simulated in the planes that you can check the fuel in what would i be looking for?? and how do you get it out if it is the virtual plane?
Gasoline is lighter than water, so you'll see a pool of different liquid on the bottom of the cup...that will be the water. I'm thinking you can correct the situation by going to the hangar, draining all the fuel and re-filling with good stuff, but I've never had to try it in the sim.

Cheers,
Rob
Rob Wilkinson
A2A: Civilian Mustang, T-6, Bonanza, Comanche, Cub, C182, Spitfire, P-40, Cherokee, P-51 - VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

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AKar
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by AKar »

MkIV Hvd wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 09:47
cessna lover wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 07:56 ah ok thank you. i would not ask to see a real fuel sample contaminated with water. but if this is simulated in the planes that you can check the fuel in what would i be looking for?? and how do you get it out if it is the virtual plane?
Gasoline is lighter than water, so you'll see a pool of different liquid on the bottom of the cup...that will be the water. I'm thinking you can correct the situation by going to the hangar, draining all the fuel and re-filling with good stuff, but I've never had to try it in the sim.

Cheers,
Rob
I think you can actually rectify the situation by simply draining enough in the preflight.

-Esa

cessna lover

Re: water in the fuel??

Post by cessna lover »

Tug002 wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 09:34 I have found water in the fuel once in the A2A 172, along with other occurrences such as an engine fire on the B-17 a run away turbo blown cylinder and the list goes on with my other A2A aircraft so I suggest that you do a good preflight or you may be surprised by what might happen while flying.

Keep smiling
Tug :)
yeah i have had blown cylinders as well but never an engine fire thank goodness for that. but i have not yet found water in my fuel. i do know in the real world this is never good to find. it can be dangerous but would the plane using water instead of fuel show up on the gauges or in the run up virtually or real?

Hook
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by Hook »

I've had water in the fuel a couple of times. All you need to do is keep checking the fuel until there is no more water. The water is easy enough to see at the bottom of the jar although you might miss it when it's just a tiny bit.

I'm not sure what happens if you try to fly with water in the fuel, I've never tried it. I doubt it improves performance. :D

If you leave the aircraft parked overnight with low levels of fuel in the tank, water can condense on the inside of the tank as outside air temperature changes over the course of a day, not unlike getting dew on the grass. This water is what you are draining when you check the fuel during the walk around.

I'm going to guess that it's not impossible to get water in the fuel you pump in when you purchase it, although that's probably not supposed to happen as there should be various filters in place. Always check before flying.

Hook

cessna lover

Re: water in the fuel??

Post by cessna lover »

Hook wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 15:18 I've had water in the fuel a couple of times. All you need to do is keep checking the fuel until there is no more water. The water is easy enough to see at the bottom of the jar although you might miss it when it's just a tiny bit.

I'm not sure what happens if you try to fly with water in the fuel, I've never tried it. I doubt it improves performance. :D

If you leave the aircraft parked overnight with low levels of fuel in the tank, water can condense on the inside of the tank as outside air temperature changes over the course of a day, not unlike getting dew on the grass. This water is what you are draining when you check the fuel during the walk around.

I'm going to guess that it's not impossible to get water in the fuel you pump in when you purchase it, although that's probably not supposed to happen as there should be various filters in place. Always check before flying.

Hook
i hope you mean virtually you had water in your fuel?? i just want to make it clear this is about virtual fuel and not the real deal here. but as far as water in the fuel what would happen is lets say for example you turn on the master switch and see you have plenty of fuel but didn't sump any of and you have lot of water. the plane would run normally on taxi and run up. but then you take off assuming every thing is fine. then your little Lycoming starts coughing like a 2 pack a day smoker and quits. it's drinking the water and not the fuel in the tanks. i have read about real situations like this. and also i think i should have made it clearer inn the name of my thread that this is virtual :oops:

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Tug002
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by Tug002 »

cessna lover wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 10:44
Tug002 wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 09:34 I have found water in the fuel once in the A2A 172, along with other occurrences such as an engine fire on the B-17 a run away turbo blown cylinder and the list goes on with my other A2A aircraft so I suggest that you do a good preflight or you may be surprised by what might happen while flying.

Keep smiling
Tug :)
yeah i have had blown cylinders as well but never an engine fire thank goodness for that. but i have not yet found water in my fuel. i do know in the real world this is never good to find. it can be dangerous but would the plane using water instead of fuel show up on the gauges or in the run up virtually or real?
Best bet is to check for water during pre-flight as you don't want the water getting up to the engine as that would cause a mess to clean out of the fuel lines and anywhere else it migrates to, defiantly not good in the winter. Guessing that you would notice a power loss during run-up or if unlucky during take off.

Keep smiling
Tug :)

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Oracle427
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by Oracle427 »

Water in the fuel is not uncommon IRL. It is also super easy to simulate for anyone by taking a fuel sample and then adding some water into it. A few drops can be very easily missed, but they raise a red flag that requires further inspection. Trapped water in the wing is extremely dangerous.

In extremely cold winter conditions, one must also consider that any water inside the wing or fuel system may be frozen. At least one accident in our area was attributed to ice in the fuel system clogging the fuel strainer and starving the engine of fuel.

A little bit water in the fuel will cause rough running on fuel injected engines. Water is very dangerous with carbureted engines as the water will tend to remain in the float bowl and could kill the engine if too much water enters the float bowl. One evening about 600' AGL as I climbed out from takeoff with a fuel injected engine, I experienced a very brief but pronounced blip where the engine lost power. I returned to the airport and landed, and while we never figured out what it was, we suspect it was a pocket of water in the fuel system that was ingested as I banked in a nose high attitude.

I once drained over a quart of water out of one wing on a 182Q that had the old style "killer" fuel gaps. There had been hard rains and the o-ring was damaged so the water pooled up around the cap and entered the tank. The old style "killer caps" fit flush into a funnel shaped port recessed into the wing. It relies purely on the integrity of an o-ring to keep water from entering the tank and any standing water will immediately enter the tank when the cap is removed. Cessna later revised the design so that the cap sits on top and the port has slightly elevated edges all around.

Aftermarket caps are also available to replace the legacy design.

https://monarchcaps.com/
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

cessna lover

Re: water in the fuel??

Post by cessna lover »

Oracle427 wrote: 19 Nov 2020, 10:00 Water in the fuel is not uncommon IRL. It is also super easy to simulate for anyone by taking a fuel sample and then adding some water into it. A few drops can be very easily missed, but they raise a red flag that requires further inspection. Trapped water in the wing is extremely dangerous.

In extremely cold winter conditions, one must also consider that any water inside the wing or fuel system may be frozen. At least one accident in our area was attributed to ice in the fuel system clogging the fuel strainer and starving the engine of fuel.

A little bit water in the fuel will cause rough running on fuel injected engines. Water is very dangerous with carbureted engines as the water will tend to remain in the float bowl and could kill the engine if too much water enters the float bowl. One evening about 600' AGL as I climbed out from takeoff with a fuel injected engine, I experienced a very brief but pronounced blip where the engine lost power. I returned to the airport and landed, and while we never figured out what it was, we suspect it was a pocket of water in the fuel system that was ingested as I banked in a nose high attitude.

I once drained over a quart of water out of one wing on a 182Q that had the old style "killer" fuel gaps. There had been hard rains and the o-ring was damaged so the water pooled up around the cap and entered the tank. The old style "killer caps" fit flush into a funnel shaped port recessed into the wing. It relies purely on the integrity of an o-ring to keep water from entering the tank and any standing water will immediately enter the tank when the cap is removed. Cessna later revised the design so that the cap sits on top and the port has slightly elevated edges all around.

Aftermarket caps are also available to replace the legacy design.

https://monarchcaps.com/
wow thank goodness you got back to the airport. :D

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Oracle427
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by Oracle427 »

It was a blip. A one second hiccup of the engine while climbing at Vy in a 172 at night. When you are in that attitude, even a one second blip of the engine results in a very noticeable deceleration. It happened so quickly that I did not glance at my airspeed and continued flying the plane. I was flying IFR though still in VMC conditions, so I had asked approach to return to the airport and that was that.

All said and done, it was a non-event, but it reinforced a lesson my instructor taught me as a student during one takeoff. Shortly after starting to climb out of N07 southbound, my instructor knocked my hand off the throttle and pulled the power back a little. I was initially confused as to why he took my hand off the throttle, but as soon as I saw what was happening I pitch over aggressively to maintain airspeed and take in a faceful of trees at the end of the runway. He was satisfied with what I did and added the power back in and away we went. You have to be primed to handle the situation and ready to fly the plane all the way down into whatever environment is ahead of you. Your mind needs to have been there prior to taking the runway and applying the throttle to start the takeoff. You have to know your options and understand when some doors are opened or closed depending on how much altitude and visibility you have.

So while it definitely got the adrenaline up on that evening, it was something I had already mentally prepared for and knew what I was could do to address it. I was actually more worried about how the controller was going to vector me since I was IFR. :)
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

cessna lover

Re: water in the fuel??

Post by cessna lover »

Oracle427 wrote: 19 Nov 2020, 11:40 It was a blip. A one second hiccup of the engine while climbing at Vy in a 172 at night. When you are in that attitude, even a one second blip of the engine results in a very noticeable deceleration. It happened so quickly that I did not glance at my airspeed and continued flying the plane. I was flying IFR though still in VMC conditions, so I had asked approach to return to the airport and that was that.

All said and done, it was a non-event, but it reinforced a lesson my instructor taught me as a student during one takeoff. Shortly after starting to climb out of N07 southbound, my instructor knocked my hand off the throttle and pulled the power back a little. I was initially confused as to why he took my hand off the throttle, but as soon as I saw what was happening I pitch over aggressively to maintain airspeed and take in a faceful of trees at the end of the runway. He was satisfied with what I did and added the power back in and away we went. You have to be primed to handle the situation and ready to fly the plane all the way down into whatever environment is ahead of you. Your mind needs to have been there prior to taking the runway and applying the throttle to start the takeoff. You have to know your options and understand when some doors are opened or closed depending on how much altitude and visibility you have.

So while it definitely got the adrenaline up on that evening, it was something I had already mentally prepared for and knew what I was could do to address it. I was actually more worried about how the controller was going to vector me since I was IFR. :)
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yeah but a door popping open on take off ain't as dangerous as fuel in the engine. when you are happily taking off and suddenly that engine start's coughing HOUSTON WE HAVE PROBLEM :lol: i think thats why there have been cases of this for real is because it don't show up until full throttle is applied and you are climbing :shock:

Hook
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Re: water in the fuel??

Post by Hook »

cessna lover wrote: 19 Nov 2020, 06:50
Hook wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 15:18 I've had water in the fuel a couple of times.
i hope you mean virtually you had water in your fuel??
Everything I wrote applies to the sim. I don't fly in real life.

The only time I've had a real life problem with water in the fuel was with a Goldwing motorcycle that had filled the water trap and the water backed up into the cylinders. The engine would not turn, and removing the spark plugs and cranking the engine resulted in lots of water shooting out the spark plug holes. Now that I knew about the water trap, I made sure to empty it frequently.

As for having problems with fuel bought from a pump, the only problem I had was with a diesel car. The filling station I normally used had let their fuel filter clog up and instead of replacing it they simply removed it. The fuel now flowed properly from the pump, but I was replacing my car's fuel filter every few days until the crud in my fuel tank was exhausted. I started using another filling station as soon as I realized what had happened, luckily before I got fuel there a second time.

This should never happen with aviation fuel, but you never know what might be going on at small airports.

In the sim with A2A aircraft, you can occasionally get water in the fuel. Always check before flight.

Hook

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