Question about ATC Verbage: Clearance for a SID

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Still Learning
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Question about ATC Verbage: Clearance for a SID

Post by Still Learning »

I'm using Pilot 2 ATC for my ATC and they will say "<Callsign> Cleared to fly the XXXX Departure, with the XXXXX transition. Cleared to 8,000 Feet via the Departure."
Given my level of understanding, it's a) confusing, and b) open to interpretation, (as to when the clearance to 8,000 takes effect.)

Any help would be appreciated

Still Learning
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Oracle427
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Re: Question about ATC Verbage: Clearance for a SID

Post by Oracle427 »

What departure? Every departure procedure is unique and you'll need to follow the directions in the procedure to comply.

Here is the KPOU DUTCHESS SEVEN departure.

https://www.airnav.com/depart?http://ae ... TCHESS.PDF

Note the description at the bottom along with the legs and altitudes and any other remarks. This one is pretty straightforward.

I was cleared once to the COATE transition via the departure. Feels a bit weird in a 172. :)
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CAPFlyer
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Re: Question about ATC Verbage: Clearance for a SID

Post by CAPFlyer »

Still Learning wrote: 08 Apr 2019, 15:16 I'm using Pilot 2 ATC for my ATC and they will say "<Callsign> Cleared to fly the XXXX Departure, with the XXXXX transition. Cleared to 8,000 Feet via the Departure."
Given my level of understanding, it's a) confusing, and b) open to interpretation, (as to when the clearance to 8,000 takes effect.)

Any help would be appreciated

Still Learning
I'm confused too because that's not proper phaseology from any country I'm aware of.

In the US, the phraseology should be -

"Cleared to xxx via the xxx departure, xxx transition, then as filed. Climb via the SID, except maintain xxx (if restriction required, otherwise, it would just be "climb via the SID"). Departure frequency xxx.xxx, squawk xxxx."

Reference: 7110.65X - https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _CHG_3.pdf

Page 192 (4-2-2) contains several clearance examples.
Page 199 (4-3-5) also contains more examples of clearances and phraseology.

ATC has very specific phraseology they must use. Deviation from that phraseology is what creates confusion and non-compliance, so they try to avoid it as much as possible. This is very often the biggest issue with "automated" ATC programs, they are often not programed in compliance and thus give incorrect expectations to prospective pilots. If you want some really good training, go through the VATSIM Pilot Certification program (there are several groups that offer it) and start flying on VATSIM. If you really want to go "top level", you can also do PilotEdge, which is a paid service, but provides guaranteed service at certain airports for different much of the day and they are all very well trained ATC.
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MkIV Hvd
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Re: Question about ATC Verbage: Clearance for a SID

Post by MkIV Hvd »

It's not really unusual to have slight differences in jargon between Centers, or countries for that matter. The only thing missing is the clearance limit, which is actually the most important thing. Otherwise you are cleared to (destination missing) via the xxx departure, xxx transition and you are now cleared to 8000 feet via the lateral path of the SID. There is no interpretation necessary as the clearance is effective as soon as you read it back...you are cleared to 8000' via the SID.
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