Stock A2A B-17 vs Accusim B-17

[Arctic Cat ZRT]

Hello everyone, I have a quick, and possibly noobish question.

I know that there are many differences between just the Wings of Power II B-17 and then with the accusim package installed with it. I know of the simulation differences such as sounds, hanger, crew simualtion, etc. I just wanted to make sure are there any visual differences between just the standard B-17 and when Accusim is installed? Take for example textures, updated models, visual features such as opening windows, or selectable visual items such as visability of the crew. Things of that nature.

I am planning to possibly add this aircraft to my ever growing FSX toy box, and wanted to clear this up to make a better purchasing decision. I would rather not purchase the B-17 with Accusim for many reasons, atleast for now.

Best Regards,
Cat

[Skycat]

Hi Cat,

Yours is not a noobish question, but it is one that might take a little explaining for the answer.

First, it appears you have already researched the product and you have a basic idea of what Accu-Sim adds. What you may not be aware of is that the base model (the Wings of Power II B-17G) was A2A's very first 'for FSX only' release. That was back in early 2007. All the previous Wings of Power models were built for FS9 and sometimes made compatible with FSX simultaneously or at a later time. What this means is that the WoPII B-17G was a solid, high quality model when it was released, and it wasn't deemed necessary to rebuild it from scratch when the Accu-Sim expansion was in development three years later.

The Accu-Sim expansion the B-17G came out in early 2010 and was A2A's fourth Accu-Sim product. The B-17G's Accu-Sim was the culmination of earlier innovations introduced by the Stratocruiser, P-47 and Piper Cub packs; it also introduced some brand new features like the interactive maintenance hangar and a crew with situational awareness.

Which gets me to the heart of your question: Yes, the model and textures are changed by the Accu-Sim expansion. A2A's own product description of the expansion pack states, "3D model upgraded to Wings of POWER III standards with crisp, new modeling and texturing for stunning visuals."

The changes to the external model are mostly refinements that you probably wouldn't much notice without some scrutiny. I believe that older WoPII skins will still work with the Accu-Sim version of the aircraft. The major overhaul is to the cockpit to facilitate the additional interactive switches, knobs and levers that are made functional by Accu-Sim, and to update various guages. There is also a new lighting system in the cockpit. And, the windows will fog up without proper ventilation; I don't recall for sure but I think the sliding windows were added by Accu-Sim to support this feature. Read more at Flightsim's review of B-17G with Accu-Sim.

The base WoPII B-17G product is still an excellent product even without Accu-Sim, and I'd say it is one of the best 'traditional' WWII warbird models you can buy for FSX. The good news is that you can always add the Accu-Sim pack later, should you choose to just get the base model now.

[Arctic Cat ZRT]

Well thank you for that reply, the answer that was given was exactly what I was looking for! Hmm, I will have to think about this now since I will want to buy the accusim pack for the B-17 to get some extra visual goodies. I have both the P-47 and P51 Civvy from A2A which are awesome, but not the accusim packs for them. I will have to think about the crossover to Accusim...

I was either going to purchase the B-17, or the HE-219 Owl. With me studying to become a history teacher its too hard to deny the importance of the B-17 in WWII which translates into my want to flight the plane in FSX. On the other hand the Owl was unique and ahead of its time with the ability to change the situation in the night skies if introduced earlier. The decision is still very tough...

Thanks again for your time!
Best Regards,
Cat

[Skycat]

I feel your pain. When I was studying to be a history teacher, A2A released their first products including the Wings of Power I Mustang P-51D/H, the Thunderbolt pack, the first B-17 F/G pack, Heavy Bombers & Jets, etc. Alas, I was living on a budget and student teaching so I couldn't afford any of them when they first came out (sniff!)

It will get better, I promise!

[Skycat]

Just thought of this: the original reviews for the WoPII B-17G (before Accu-Sim) are still valid for the current base model without Accu-Sim. Read this Avsim review from 2007. That, compared to the first review, should give you a good idea of what the visual differences are as well as the difference in 2-D panels, systems, features, etc.

[Norforce]

Then go watch this same plane after the Accu-Sim


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCLMgLB9Qlo[/youtube]

[Arctic Cat ZRT]

All this info/videos isn't helping my econ paper get done, but you guys got me! Once I scounge the money together, I think I am going to bit the bullet and buy the B-17G with accusim! Thank you guys for helping with my decision.

Best Regards,
Cat

[whiic]

I don't think you'll have any reason to regret adding Accusim expansion to the cart. For me, the enjoyment is more like 90% Accusim, 10% base model. Accusim is not just custom sound effects... it's... stuff.

Carb heating with turbochargers. Gear and flap extension speeds. Complex electric system. Engine management (x4).

Every engine is an individual: they have different condition (even out of factory). Some turbo waste gates are faster than others. Filters clog, increasing resistance. Some have higher oil pressure than others (pump, filter, bearings). CHTs vary slightly (either actually, or just sensor inaccuracy).

You get to meet unexpected situations... such as a failed wastegate: a condition where one of the engine suddenly (or gradually) loses all control of turbo. It might get stuck, or it might fling open as it fails, causing affected engine's manifold pressure to skyrocket, requiring immediate action (reduction of throttle for said engine). And should the carb temps go too high with the runaway turbo (especially if at high altitude) you might need to do something about it... like drop the throttle even further, or choose to feather the prop and stop the engine from creating drag.

I couldn't care less about A2A planes without Accusim since when it comes to non-Accusim planes, I might as well fly a flying saucer in FSX because flying regular planes is pretty much that: playing rather than simulating. It just lacks immersion.
(OK. I bought the (non-Accusim) Albatros. It's a nice 3D model and nice looking, clickable virtual cockpit. Too bad the clickable systems don't truly function. At was quite cheap, though.)

[PZl Belfegor]

or it might fling open as it fails, causing affected engine's manifold pressure to skyrocket

Wouldn't open wastegate decrease manifold pressure?

High boost lever setting provides higher exhaust manifold pressure by closing the waste gate. The resulting higher bucket-impeller speed gives higher intake manifold pressure.

[whiic]

or it might fling open as it fails, causing affected engine's manifold pressure to skyrocket

Wouldn't open wastegate decrease manifold pressure?

Yeah, sorry. I lost though while writing. Open wastegate would obviously cause exhaust overpressure to be vented and turbo rpm to drop.

And don't know if these wastegates were spring loaded to open or shut, or have tendency to do so by exhaust pressure alone, should the wastegate motor malfunction. At least loss of inverter power does not cause runaway turbo but rather ineffective boost dial. That isn't necessarily the same as a failed wastegate would be.

Anyway, mixing up open and close was just a brainfart from me. Happens too often...

[NightFlight157]

Hello Everyone,
Well, I'm close to buying the Accusim B-17 expansion pack to add to my existing a2a Wings of Power II B-17. But before I decide, I'd love to get some feed back from some of you that have actually used it. Mainly what I'm wondering is with the Maintenance Hangar feature, does that affect my saved flights with my B-17 parked inside a hangar? I'm assuming that the Maintenance Hanger will 'show-up' at any airport when you select Shift+7? And finally, sometimes I'll be short on time and want to do a short quick flight in my B-17. Is there a way to by-pass the Maintenance Hanger and just get down to flying?
The reading I've done so far doesn't address these questions I have and would like to know a bit more of what to expect. Thanks for any input.

Jim

[Alan_A]

You're never forced to use the maintenance hangar. You're right about the procedure - you open it with Shift-7. It's not a physical hangar, so you can use it at any airport, no matter what facilities are available. Your saved flights will start wherever you left the aircraft on the ramp. If you start from the free-flight menu, the airplane will be at whatever gate or parking spot you select.

The maintenance hangar is an interface. It shows you the status of your airplane, and identifies any components that are in need of attention. You can then choose to repair or replace them, or not. Think of it as a consultation with your crew chief. You don't have to consult with him. But if you don't, and something is wrong mechanically, you might find out about it the hard way during a flight. Or you might not. A piece of machinery can have problems, but not fail for a long time, same as in the real world.

If you really want to get into the air quickly, you can select auto-start from the Shift-3 menu. Your copilot and crew will start the airplane for your, and then you can go fly. I sometimes do this when I'm short on time. In general, I like doing a manual startup (takes about 5-10 minutes) since it's one of the nicer features and gives you the feeling of being in touch with your airplane. But auto-start is also realistic - as captain, you could reasonable ask your crew to set up the aircraft while you worry about other things.

Hope this helps.