Bf-109 Stall characteristics

The most mass-produced fighter of World War II
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Scott - A2A
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Post Scott - A2A »

GOZR,

"Scott - Shockwave It just happen that i flew actually the RL Yak9U flew in many different aircrafts as well like the Mig15 etc... "

Well, you saw it here. I can pick out fighter pilots who call in for tech support, and have gotten to the point where I just ask, "so, what aircraft did you fly?" What a proud group to be a part of, and it's always a pleasure when one ends up in the simulation world. Please, feel at home to talk about your experience. People here really enjoy hearing first hand experiences.

Scott.
A2A Simulations Inc.

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stalkervision
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Post stalkervision »

From what I have read the emil in the shockwave product comes very close to the real thing. I have the Il-2 product also and believe the shockwave model is vastly superior to the "emil" flight model in il-2. Of course no one that own just il-2 will admit to it..

Nice job getting it right guys! 8)

Manta
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Post Manta »

stalkervision wrote:From what I have read the emil in the shockwave product comes very close to the real thing. I have the Il-2 product also and believe the shockwave model is vastly superior to the "emil" flight model in il-2. Of course no one that own just il-2 will admit to it..

Nice job getting it right guys! 8)
Totally agree with you :D .

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stalkervision
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Post stalkervision »

SD_Research wrote:
thunder100 wrote:Dear Researchers

I was not specific enough in my post.Yes to recover from dive it works very well.Also that over 800 km/h (heavy overspeed)there is no rudder function anymore is correct and well set up.But if you fly level at 4000-5000 m 400 km/h or over,and then pull into a tight turn you cannot do more then 4,5 g also the airspeed did not bleed off to stall speed.Also it goes in a vicious stall what needs gear out ,flap out to recover.In reality(as said to me) if you pull into a tight turn you would be able to still have 7,5 g like in the dive and stall characteristics would be different as you cannot pull further the plane does not turn in further and once you have regained more speed it turns again.

Is this corect?

Godspeed

Thunder100
Regarding: "the airspeed did not bleed off to stall speed", are you expecting the plane to stall at the 1 G stalling speed listed in the specs in a turn at 250 mph IAS? This is a misunderstanding of how an aircraft stalls; the stall speed INCREASES drastically with bank angle and you can also induce an ACCELERATED STALL by hauling back too hard on the elevator.

This is not an arcade flight model; the lift coefficient of the wing and the aircraft weight and elevator authority are accurate and if you exceed what is physically possible the plane will stall.

However it sounds like much of the problem is in your technique as well as the way you are trying to translate what you have been told into controlling the airplane in the sim. We were able to pull over 6 G's in a descending turn but you must be very sensitive on the stick. You are not going to be able to pull 7+ G's in a turn going only 400 km/hr IAS, it is not going to happen. You are going much too slow. Lift is based on airspeed, bank angle, and wing angle of attack/coefficient of lift. Those numbers are hard numbers and the sim is pretty accurate in calculating them.

You should also be aware that most pilots begin to pass out at about 4 G's and could only sustain 6 G's for an instant, so the notion of WWII pilots screaming around pulling 7 G's is inaccurate to say the least. 7 G's is the normal limit for a modern jet fighter (although they can easily exceed this if the pilot decides to override the fly-by-wire), and those pilots are wearing G-suits.

We would recommend taking some time to learn more about accelerated stalls. You can start here...

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5


I bet the problem is that he has tried Il-2's "flight dynamics" which are IMO way off and almost arcade style for the 109 as to stalling characteristics in realistic mode. The "e" model in Il-2 will practically never stall no matter how many g's you put on it which is totally inaccurate to any test data/pilots reports I have read on the 109. One totally excellent test report I have read by a british test pilot (from Me-109/Martin Caidin/ Ballentine books) was in "manuvering at speed if one tightenened the turn to four g's the 109 would drop out of the sky almost without warning except for a slight flick of the slats but control could be easily be regained throught easing up on the stick" This is EXACTLY how the 109 e performs in BoB 2! Congratulations on a job well done

msalama
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Post msalama »

The "e" model in Il-2 will practically never stall no matter how many g's you put on it which is totally inaccurate to any test data/pilots reports I have read on the 109.


Sorry, but that's not true. I just tried the IL-2 v4.08m E-4 out, and it does indeed depart quite violently if one pulls too hard during a turn. And I also managed to get her into an unrecoverable flat spin to boot!

But as regards the Biffer's real modelling inaccuracies in IL-2 the absolute worst has to be its Klown Kar ground handling. Waaay too easy compared to what I've read about the real beast which as we know was quite a handful at times, what with that torque and the narrow-track UC and everything...

But hey, if you want to see some über-modelled IL-2 slat behaviour please try to speed-stall an La-5FN! Now _that's_ impossible AFAIK...

OK, getting me coat now & sorry for butting into your conversation with this somewhat OT post of mine. S! all and please do continue with this excellent discussion of yours.

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stalkervision
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Post stalkervision »

msalama wrote:
The "e" model in Il-2 will practically never stall no matter how many g's you put on it which is totally inaccurate to any test data/pilots reports I have read on the 109.


Sorry, but that's not true. I just tried the IL-2 v4.08m E-4 out, and it does indeed depart quite violently if one pulls too hard during a turn. And I also managed to get her into an unrecoverable flat spin to boot!

But as regards the Biffer's real modelling inaccuracies in IL-2 the absolute worst has to be its Klown Kar ground handling. Waaay too easy compared to what I've read about the real beast which as we know was quite a handful at times, what with that torque and the narrow-track UC and everything...

But hey, if you want to see some über-modelled IL-2 slat behaviour please try to speed-stall an La-5FN! Now _that's_ impossible AFAIK...

OK, getting me coat now & sorry for butting into your conversation with this somewhat OT post of mine. S! all and please do continue with this excellent discussion of yours.



This I agee has been drastically improved in the 4.8 patch. I was originally talking about a older version. The e-4 in il-2 still can't hold a candle to the BobWov 109 FM though IMO... :)

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