we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

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R-2800-59
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we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by R-2800-59 »

Dear community and devs,

after watching my first videos of the An-2 and DHC-4 Caribou I am heartbroken. The startups are sooo canned, lifeless and easy. Much of the thrill of operating such a brute gets lost here.

And unfortunately that's what interests me the most - I want a living engine with its quirks, sputtering when its cold and complaining when misused! Especially on the radial front there's just a desert for me!


WWISE opened new possibilites in terms of sound and the developers start to use it nicely , but a nice sounding engine is only half the job to me :-(


So thrilled about A2A actually running a thing separate to the limiting MSFS environment!!!!

To finish that post with a little piston sentimentality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU9Nr7haaeI

Just listen how it comes to life... and compare:

https://youtu.be/Fo4qboh7xuk?t=114

aenigma
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by aenigma »

I agree 100% the sounds in MSFS are pathetic. I've had better sounds in FSX/P3D. Take the DHC-2 for example. What is up with that shutdown sound? The engine just stops almost instantly with no shutdown sound at all. There is a freeware Beaver sound pack for FSX/P3D that sounds great and yet they do that? The biggest issue with that one back in the day was the throttle was linked to engine rpm, rather than prop, so I edited the sound.cfg so it was linked to prop and it sounded really nice.

At least MSFS does that now, but it's still very lackluster and VWise is overly complicated for what it is so there are hardly any sound packs. I have yet to hear any engine sounds that are even half decent. Very low tier options for airplanes still, seems nobody has learned how to properly make a plane or use the new sound system and just want to shovel junk out at high prices.

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Mantock
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Mantock »

The sounds will come down to individual developers, not the MSFS SDK's ability to render good quality soundsets. I fully expect A2A Simulations for instance to release something with polished dynamic sounds. It all depends on how much the devs want to sink time and money into 'getting it just right' or making the simulation feel alive. Thankfully A2A are all about making an aircraft feel and sound alive. Scott has been on about that for years, so we will have something good very soon. But a lot of other devs will do the minimum, or do enough to make the general engine start sound ok, but no dynamic changeable experience based off the simulation of actual pistons turning.
ImageImage

Schmidde
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Schmidde »

The An-2 and Caribou are "normal consumer" planes, with almost no in depth engine/system simulation.
If you want more study level you should have a look at Black Square's Bonanza or the WB Sim 172.

But yeah, I hope A2A and the testers make good progress in the beta an we can get our hands on the Comanche soon.

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R-2800-59
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by R-2800-59 »

The only piston planes I thoroughly enjoy in MSFS are the WBSim 152 and of course the PMDG DC-6. The latter holds the reign of the best study level prop addon, so far to me - until A2A enters I guess :D
Even more remarkable when you see that the six is out for a looong time already. They did the interior sounds right.

jeanl2
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by jeanl2 »

I suggest you give Black Square's pistons a try. They have both a Bonanza and a Baron now and are the closest thing to A2A we've gotten for MSFS so far. Check this video out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97aaHYt-vDM

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Skycat
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Skycat »

R-2800-59 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 13:43 The only piston planes I thoroughly enjoy in MSFS are the WBSim 152 and of course the PMDG DC-6.
Thanks for the tip on this! I installed the WBSim/JBL C152 last night and I was pleased with how much better it makes the default C152. I added the free GTN 750 and the bezel mod.
Pax Orbis Per Arma Aeria

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Mantock
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Mantock »

I've installed the Black Square Baron. Very nice work! I will enjoy this and it will be interesting to see how the black square baron adds up against the A2A Aerostar when that releases. Fully expect A2A out of the gate to significantly reset the bar for quality in MSFS.
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Schmidde
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Schmidde »

I like it too. But since they use the standard Asobo 3D model there is no interaction with the plane outside the cockpit/instrument panel and it doesn´t feel as immersive as i remember the Comanche.

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ClipperLuna
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by ClipperLuna »

When I think about the lack of systems modeling in the stock (and some add-on) stuff, my response is puzzlement. I've always felt a big part of being a pilot is understanding all the bits and pieces of the machine, how and why they work, being able to look for the warning signs that something's about to fail, and knowing what to do when you see a warning sign or experience a complete failure. There's a lot of nuance in there that's lacking. The puzzlement is because great lengths were undertaken to develop the flight model, atmosphere, etc., and then systems modeling is no better than it was in the FSX days. It's like building a mansion to rival the grandest Edwardian-era country estate, then furnishing it with plastic lawn furniture.

Having said that, I'm very grateful for those working to develop properly-modeled aircraft. It's a great time for flight simulation!

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Scott - A2A
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Scott - A2A »

R-2800-59 wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 16:33 Dear community and devs,

after watching my first videos of the An-2 and DHC-4 Caribou I am heartbroken. The startups are sooo canned, lifeless and easy. Much of the thrill of operating such a brute gets lost here....So thrilled about A2A actually running a thing separate to the limiting MSFS environment!!!!
The combustion engine modeling in this new Accu-Sim engine is insane. The sound engine is fused to it. Just starting and operating the engine, for me anyway, is the most gratifying part of the project. It's purely dynamic. Your ear can be used to do many things with this airplane.

Scott
A2A Simulations Inc.

TreeTops
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by TreeTops »

Can we hook 4 Comanche's together and pretend its a Strat? :D
Cheers
Trev

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TuFun
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by TuFun »

aenigma wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 23:41 The biggest issue with that one back in the day was the throttle was linked to engine rpm, rather than prop, so I edited the sound.cfg so it was linked to prop and it sounded really nice.
That is interesting about the engine rpm vs prop code. My first attempt at creating a sound set was for Manfred's C-47 and second was the KC-97. A sound magician, I don't remember his name, should me how to
use the prop code for throttle. I had done a revised sound.cfg using the prop code, but never released it. That sound magician created a great sound set for DC3/C-47!

Old video shows testing using prop command for the throttles. This raw since I didn't adjust the sounds in the sound.cfg just yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=turpWxER5fk

Edit: Found sound magician he is Mike Maarse. He did some sound work for X-Plane also.
Last edited by TuFun on 28 Mar 2023, 18:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Medtner
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Medtner »

That is lovely! One of the main reasons I became a fulltime A2A-pilot back in the day was that very problem. It drove me nuts to have the RPM-sound be correlated to MP. Intense postings on Lockheed Martin's forum didn't make them understand it, either, replying to me as if I were a crank that had no idea what I was talking about. Infuriating...
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

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Medtner
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Re: we need a decent piston engine in MSFS!!!

Post by Medtner »

Scott - A2A wrote: 27 Mar 2023, 16:07
R-2800-59 wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 16:33 Dear community and devs,

after watching my first videos of the An-2 and DHC-4 Caribou I am heartbroken. The startups are sooo canned, lifeless and easy. Much of the thrill of operating such a brute gets lost here....So thrilled about A2A actually running a thing separate to the limiting MSFS environment!!!!
The combustion engine modeling in this new Accu-Sim engine is insane. The sound engine is fused to it. Just starting and operating the engine, for me anyway, is the most gratifying part of the project. It's purely dynamic. Your ear can be used to do many things with this airplane.

Scott
I'm insanely excited about this. Can't you just supply us with a tiny teaser of this? Just a few precious seconds? :-D
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

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