about deflection

[einherz]

hi developers and users. i have an idea and this idea is a long time dream of model's implementation. as we know, when we unstable in the sky and drop the controls, surfaces, rudder and joystick go to dancing in the rain in the sun in the snow and in the any other condition, or. when we trim something, main surfaces start to move by tabs, which under airflow. in simulators we got situation, when our virtual joystick and main deflective surfaces depend of physical joystick position. and this is not right. would be cool, if physical control will just move virtual joystick, ailerons, elevator, rudder, pedals without copy past of that position, but depend of real life situation. as example aircraft in left flat spin, this move rudder left, and when we give right leg rudder go to center and after all right, or. we trim elevator and rudder to take off, and when we run virtual joystick and elevator moves much more than physical one, same pedals, or. we go to landing and trim elevator, and virtual joystick go back and elevator go up in the same time physical stay around center... in couple a words. physical joy/pedals only correct different trimmed or air flow by other causes blows surfaces, but not force virtual to be in same position... it's like force feed back but only for virtual controls/surfaces for people who don't use ffb joysticks. or even use force sensors where joystick don't moves or moves just a couple degrees of deflection... first time i notice that in p3d a2a mustang when landing with trimmed elevator and look external what i do super rare. but there i saw that can never unsee - elevator was in neutral. but then in msfs i use ailerons trim, but ailerons still in neutral and that was from cockpit so driving crazy even me:)
it's all looks so wrong, unnatural and contradictory... any chance to do models without straight connect to physical joy/pedals connection? it's would be so cool...

[AKar]

Yes, one of my biggest gripes with FS and its descendants is the software's complete lack of understanding over how flight controls work. It is not merely a visual thing, but creates other issues as well. For instance, it is possible to fly many aircraft in the sim with, say, full down elevator that is compensated with what they call but what clearly isn't "elevator trim". Not only it looks stupid but the "trim" acts as an additional control authority on top of the main surface. Which is kind of not right.

-Esa

[einherz]

i think is not easy by light words, for true it must be very hard to implement it right by airflow depending, and if do that not causal way it will eat cpu time much. but i see two way - first is make it semicasual without 100% authentic. and second if i'm right about cpu, make some injecting library which will use 3 and 5 cores for example as independent process... i really don't sure if it worth to do, because i'm not coder and don't know how it works in pc, how really much it will eat source and how hard to write this way. just curious and remembering it's very long time we got that. i remember il-2 old time simulator from 2000 there balanced trimmers in il-2 moves with ailerons and yak was modeling by casual way, but... by that way trimmers moves joystick but even at 0 air speed that not right too but...

[AKar]

It has been done properly, one of my favorite examples is an ancient Project Tupolev freeware group who back in FS9 days went on to model the Il-62's flight control system with reasonable technical accuracy. For pitch, the system combines direct manual elevator with aerodynamic trim tabs and electrically trimmable horizontal stabilizer. Among other sims, DCS for instance has gotten it rather nicely, and with very many different kind of flight control systems.

Also, it needs not to be computationally heavy. The 'necessary' computational complexity of real time flight dynamics engines tend to be exaggerated in minds of people. These are not done primarily by anything like real-time CFD (which still is impossible in any meaningful accuracy within a flight sim environment), and many proven FDEs are reasonably light.

-Esa

[einherz]

as i told you, i really don't know, but if other guys simulate it right so it's not overkill:)