Msfs flight dynamics

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russellwwest
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Joined: 05 Sep 2020, 13:01

Msfs flight dynamics

Post by russellwwest »

As a non real life pilot and a layman when it comes to aerodynamics and physics, I don't tend to talk about flight dynamics in simulators. However, ever since owning a particular piper arrow in MSFS, I have had strange jerky behaviour on takeoff and approach. I stumbled across this forum topic about it, where, thankfully, others had experienced the same. And the response from the Dev involved had quite a shocking comment. I wonder if A2A have experienced issues with the flight dynamics?

https://community.justflight.com/topic/ ... h-jerks/98
That's gone to Asobo to see if they have any idea what is going on, as there is nothing which I can see that would cause such an effect. Two things to remember: 1) This game's flight model is NOT based in fundamental aerodynamics. It is a mixture of some aerodynamics, some shape-based and some attempts to fix problems caused by the first two. It does not make sense aerodynamically, nor in many respects in terms of geometry. 2) I asked a question directly regarding jet engines back in November on the support forum set up specifically for Devs to get answers to problems. That has still not been answered 6 months later along with several others but it leaves us totally guessing what to do.

When we have to start guessing, you may as well all join in because that's how daft this game's flight model has become - no info, very little support for Devs and it does not make sense on its own. Sorry about that, hopefully we'll hear back from them but until that point we really are stuck with a situation we find unreasonable ourselves.

I have prided myself on accuracy within the constraints of the various sims prior to MSFS, this is a game and I don't think I am going to waste too much more time on it really because it has too much control without allowing the flight dynamics guy to adjust and derives everything from base aircraft (such as the C172). That's not appropriate for so many different types! ACES had a solid base in aerodynamic theory and it worked, but the environment around it was stifled. This game is a brilliant world and environment, but flight is based on "here's a problem, let's fix it with a random scalar"
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Bones
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Re: Msfs flight dynamics

Post by Bones »

This is why I've been hoping A2A's flight modeling will be completely separate from Asobo's.

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Mantock
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Re: Msfs flight dynamics

Post by Mantock »

I totally agree with Bones.

I largely suspect Accusim in MSFS will be a complete departure from using Asobo's toolset. Much like the Magestic Dash-8 Q400 is in the P3D platform, their flight dynamics are totally separate from P3D, and it's one of the best feeling aircraft to fly in P3D IMO.

Also a recent comment from Scott where he said the Comanche is being developed in such a way that it could almost be plugged into any sim on the market without having to redevelop the same addon for each individual sim. (a HUGE time and money saver if they have managed that step in coding and modelling for their whole fleet of aicraft going into MSFS - and going forwards into the future).

So in a round-about way, to come back to your topic. Yes, I highly suspect A2A's flight dynamics have little dependancy on MSFS's code. But we'll have to wait and see.

-Peter
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ClipperLuna
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Re: Msfs flight dynamics

Post by ClipperLuna »

Not to get too off topic, but it would be interesting to see something like a video on how exactly A2A takes flight data and uses it to make the flight model. A window into how the sausage is made, so to speak.

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Ron Attwood
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Re: Msfs flight dynamics

Post by Ron Attwood »

ClipperLuna wrote: 07 Jun 2022, 13:34 Not to get too off topic, but it would be interesting to see something like a video on how exactly A2A takes flight data and uses it to make the flight model. A window into how the sausage is made, so to speak.
They could show you...But then they'd have to kill you. :twisted:
Eva Vlaardingerbroek, an inspiratiom.

Mustang
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Re: Msfs flight dynamics

Post by Mustang »

Mantock wrote: 07 Jun 2022, 06:00 So in a round-about way, to come back to your topic. Yes, I highly suspect A2A's flight dynamics have little dependancy on MSFS's code. But we'll have to wait and see.
If that was the case, I reckon we might lose a lot of the 'feel' from the environment on the aircraft. Remember that with gusts and turbulence, MSFS can simulate different wind speeds over different parts of the aircraft. One wing in a thermal while the other is not, for example. Those forces have to be accounted for over the surfaces of the model, and added to the forces generated by the flight model and control inputs. I wonder how well the two can really be separated from each other without giving too many negative consequences, such as going back to the 'on rails' feeling of the earlier sims.

Hopefully it's possible to have a hybrid arrangement for the best of both worlds.

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Ron Attwood
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Re: Msfs flight dynamics

Post by Ron Attwood »

Mustang wrote: 07 Jun 2022, 16:54 If that was the case, I reckon we might lose a lot of the 'feel' from the environment on the aircraft. Remember that with gusts and turbulence, MSFS can simulate different wind speeds over different parts of the aircraft. One wing in a thermal while the other is not, for example. Those forces have to be accounted for over the surfaces of the model, and added to the forces generated by the flight model and control inputs. I wonder how well the two can really be separated from each other without giving too many negative consequences, such as going back to the 'on rails' feeling of the earlier sims.

Hopefully it's possible to have a hybrid arrangement for the best of both worlds.
That's the Asobo line, but I can't say I've been 'blown away' (sorry) by it. Yes there is some input, but just the odd buffeting here and there.
Eva Vlaardingerbroek, an inspiratiom.

Mustang
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Re: Msfs flight dynamics

Post by Mustang »

Well, my experience is quite different. Turbulence is very 'random' and natural, and not 'canned' as it felt in FSX. With Active Sky Next, the turbulence switched between off/low/medium/high (you could see it in the GUI) and the effects were always the same, and repetitive.

With MSFS I have had aircraft roll up to 20° from a strong, uneven gust while flying in hilly areas. I've also had lots of rise and fall, some sudden and unpredictable, and it looks & feels very realistic (in my opinion). Something I never experienced in FSX.

In fact, I remembered that I made a video of it in action a while back using the static drone camera, as some users on the official forum claimed there was NO turbulence in the sim at all! This was while flying over NSW, Australia.


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