VR vs. TrackIR

[Masterius]

I want to increase the immersion factor to my flight sim experience, and so looking to add either VR or TrackIR. I mostly use P3DV5, although I also have FSX:SE and MS2020 (which I've never flown in as yet, finding it too much of a headache to set up as LINDA doesn't play well with it, and also because there's no A2A aircraft for it at this time). At the moment, despite the increased cost, I'm leaning more towards VR, as it'd be useable across a wider range of platforms and games than TrackIR would be. However, what's most important to me is the immersion "realism" with regards to flight sim experience.

For those who have used either or both, I'd appreciate your opinions and suggestions, and the pros and cons, of them.

[TBryson2]

I really like my TrackIR. BUT there are those who say it makes them dizzy and they will not fly with it. I, on the other hand, cannot fly without it!

Their dizziness (in my opinion) is twofold. They didn't calibrate or set it up for their needs, and they didn't get used to it. It's SO much easier to get used to it once you tweak it to your liking.

I (sadly) have yet to experience VR, and once I do, 'm afraid I may never go back.

TB

[ratty]

I've tried VR in flightsims and it may be worthy one day but for now the limited field of view and poor resolution spoil it for me. I use TrackIR with a 55" monitor and I won't fly without it either.

[Hook]

People who use VR tend to be fanatical about it. I haven't tried it myself. I have limited movement in my neck and couldn't use a 1:1 motion; TrackIR allows me to set it up so I can look directly behind me on both sides if I wish and the movement still feels natural.

I've been using TrackIR since August 2012 across a variety of simulations. I tell people that TrackIR adds more to the flight sim experience than anything other than a joystick.

When I first started using TrackIR, I had a bit of dizziness. I soon learned to turn my eyes in the same direction I was turning my head and all problems went away. I suspect VR users have the same issue and can counteract it the same way.

Good luck!

Hook

[Skycat]

I began my VR journey over a year ago with an Oculus Rift-S set and now I'd say 90% of my overall flight simming time is now VR. I've never used TrackIR so my only reference is 20+ years of playing sims on a flat screen and using my joystick HAT switch or a mouse to change views. So how would I sum up the difference? Remember when you were a kid and you got to spend the day at arcade, and you knew the cabinet racing game with the steering wheel and pedals and shifter lever was pretty close to driving a real car... but the Go-Kart track out back was the real deal. (To continue the analogy, recording POV while driving a Go-Kart is TrackIR).

When you put on the VR set you are inside the cockpit. It's all around you: above, behind, below. Move your head a little and you can see behind the yoke or around a pillar for proper binocular perspective or to notice small details. Reflector gunsights in warbirds actually make sense. People build entire sim pits for this same sense of 'being there.' It's so convincing, the aircraft's motion might even make you nauseous your first couple times until you get used to VR simming.

The most difficult gap to bridge is interacting with your virtual levers and switches in the cockpit. P3Dv5 supports hand controllers but I'm not a fan of using them because I like to also feel a joystick in my hands, and hand controllers just get in the way. I still use my mouse cursor to interact with switches and levers, along with buttons mapped to my joystick. I also use VoiceAttack speech-to-keys software to dictate commands. Remember, in VR you are blind to the keyboard unless you peek under your visor.

BTW I upgraded to the Reverb G2 but I quickly went back to my Rift-S. I personally get slightly better frames in most sims with Rift-S, and I also prefer the Oculus platform to Windows Mixed Reality. I understand MSFS 2020 implemented VR around the Reverb G2, and that it has improved since roll out. I don't have MSFS yet.

Sims I play in VR:
- P3Dv5. The native support is really good and simple to switch back and forth between VR and monitor. As I said, I use my mouse for UI.
- FSX Steam Edition. This requires the third party FlyInside program. It converts FSX to VR very well but is kind of a hassle to launch and use. It also changes your FSX settings to lower quality every time you use it which makes switching between VR and traditional a bit awkward. (The A2A P-47 is lot of fun in VR BTW.)
- IL2 Battle of Stalingrad / Great Battles / Flying Circus / Tank Crew. My absolute go-to right now and I play two or three missions a night. There are no mouse clicky-pits anyhow so this series is easy to transition into VR with, especially if you're okay with using automated engine and radiator assists. VoiceAttack is a 'must have' in my opinion.
- DCS World. I love flying the Warbirds. Mouse click is awkward at times and terrible for combat. VoiceAttack and button mapping helps.
- WarThunder (aircraft). This is good place to start out with a new VR set because WT is free and actually very well optimized for VR, and the aircraft commands are simple, at least at the Tier One levels.

[alan CXA651]

Hi Masterius.
I dont have VR but do have trackIR5 , at first i felt a bit sick after 5 min , but i found it did not take long to get used to it , and would not be without it .
From listening to post about VR and knowing about track IR5 , there is pros and cons for both.
1/. cost VR costs more than trackIR5
2/. VR headsets are heavier than trackIR5 that clips on headphones
3/. VR has to small monitors in the headset , so less pixels than a monitor
4/. With a VR you cannot see your keyboard or things like saitek radio panel , so you have to keep taking it off to see or use these items
More games are being done to cater for VR and trackIR so the choice is yours.
regards Alan.

[Masterius]

When you put on the VR set you are inside the cockpit. It's all around you: above, behind, below. Move your head a little and you can see behind the yoke or around a pillar for proper binocular perspective or to notice small details. Reflector gunsights in warbirds actually make sense. People build entire sim pits for this same sense of 'being there.' It's so convincing, the aircraft's motion might even make you nauseous your first couple times until you get used to VR simming.

This was the main reason I'd been strongly considering VR. (The convincing aspect, not the nauseous part! )

The most difficult gap to bridge is interacting with your virtual levers and switches in the cockpit. P3Dv5 supports hand controllers but I'm not a fan of using them because I like to also feel a joystick in my hands, and hand controllers just get in the way. I still use my mouse cursor to interact with switches and levers, along with buttons mapped to my joystick. I also use VoiceAttack speech-to-keys software to dictate commands. Remember, in VR you are blind to the keyboard unless you peek under your visor.

...4/. With a VR you cannot see your keyboard or things like saitek radio panel , so you have to keep taking it off to see or use these items

And this is the reason why I'm likely to go with TrackIR instead. It hadn't occurred to be before this--silly me --that I wouldn't be able to look at my flight peripherals if using VR. I enjoy the physical feel of using multiple throttles, RPM, mixture, and intercoolers, and all the other "hard" controls mapped to buttons, etc. But I have to be able to see them to use them. (Well, use them efficiently; if I couldn't see them it'd be like having an in-flight night time emergency having the cabin and panel lights die! )

[BrettT]

I was a long time user of track IR for flying and driving sims. When VR first came out I bought in with the Vive then upgraded to the Vive Pro. The difference is night and day. You would be surprised how quickly you get used to where all the buttons are on your HOTAS....its kind of the point of a HOTAS to begin with

The best way I can describe the difference is as follows:

Whenever I would go on a vacation I would take pictures of the beautiful vistas; mountains, beaches, canyons, cityscapes etc. No matter how much I tried the picture never conveyed the depth and the feeling I had being there. It felt less impressive.

Flat screen (with or without track IR) is like the picture, VR is like being there

[Masterius]

You would be surprised how quickly you get used to where all the buttons are on your HOTAS....its kind of the point of a HOTAS to begin with

Well, yes...that is the point of a H.O.T.A.S., yes.

But below is my (current) setup, and each of the quadrant momentary switches--eighteen switches, two positions each, and three possible modes, for a total of 108 commands--perform functions, ranging from engaging the engine starter and mesh switches, to opening and closing cowl flaps...pretty much anything switchable/moveable in the cockpit is mapped to switches. The levers themselves probably would be easily adjusted "blindly", since they are ganged in groups of four (one per engine, and for throttles, mixture, propeller pitch, and intercoolers) and have matched knobs, but the switches would be a lot more difficult to blindly find. And adjusting radio frequencies using the radio panel while using VR doesn't look exactly promising.

I'm probably going to start off getting my toes wet with TrackIR 5, as that seems like a good compromise with using my pre-existing hardware flight controls, as well as being substantially less expensive.

[Skycat]

I like your setup! I've been considering getting a throttle quadrant mostly for my P-47s so I understand your concern about operating peripherals blind. I agree TrackIR may be the best solution for the kind of flying you enjoy.

I try not to be fanatical about VR but it is hard to not get enthusiastic when people ask about it. I understand it isn't right solution for everybody, and for many valid reasons including hardware limitations and gaming style, but IMO it's the revolution you're searching for if you're passionate about vintage airplanes (or exotic cars or Sherman tanks, etc). If you have ever wished for the keys to your dream vehicle for one hour--VR is like winning the entire Planes of Fame hangar or Jay Leno's garage in a lottery. Some of the immersion comes from shutting out the physical world, causing your brain to really focus on the information from the headset. Most of the immersion is how you perceive the virtual space from the headset. Your co-pilot's seat will be two feet from you, engine No. 1 will be outside the cabin window, and you'll believe you can set your coffee cup on top of your instrument panel. It's not like the old ViewMaster discs where stereogram images are presented in layers. It isn't like the 360-degree cockpit pictures online where you feel like you are in a ball. It isn't a 180-degree image that goes black at the border if you turn your head too far to the right. It is *no kidding* an entire world around you in proper perspective as far as you would naturally see in that situation.

Beginning VR, the illusion is so real that your brain anticipates the forces of a bank, dive or climb. You'll "feel" flying, and probably lean a lot in your chair to compensate. It's exhausting at first but your brain adapts and eventually you get your "sea legs."

During pandemic lockdown I found a free app called Big Screen Beta that puts you in virtual environments where you can watch movies or television on a large screen and chat in real time with avatar-ized friends. I wasn't interested in the social aspect of the program, but I enjoyed that I could watch my Netflix movies in different theater environments. The full movie experience was there: sitting in stadium seating, I could look all around and admire the decor on the walls and see the projector's light behind me. I could even throw my virtual popcorn or drink cup at the front row if I wanted to. That's the power of a proper VR experience.

[Masterius]

I found a free program called Opentrack, and have gotten it to work with FSX:SE. I just can't get it to interface with P3DV5.

[Rioku]

Track IR is simulation.

VR is real.

[BrettT]

Masterius,

Before I had VR (when I used track IR) I used to have a setup just as complicated as yours. Not as many levers but just as many or more buttons. In addition to my HOTAS and extra set of saitek levers I had a pair of MFD button sets mounted to a screen that I then programmed based on which plane I was flying. Now I take a much different approach. I program the levers as needed, the HOTAS to reflect the actual buttons on the real HOTAS (and possibly a few others for convenience). Everything else is done via the virtual cockpit. I have found it very liberating (not having to memorize a whole slew of generic buttons for a specific plane....everything was where it was supposed to be) and much more immersive. That has just been my experience, your experience may vary and the track IR may be the happy middle ground you are looking for

[Masterius]

I'm going to start saving up for a decent VR system. I'm the meantime, for $2.95 I've a sweet little app for my phone that interfaces with the free Opentrack software. It works just fine with FSX:SE; not as smooth as some videos I've seen, but, then again, I've not at all played with the settings/mapping. However...



Nothing I do will have P3DV5 connect with it.

Anyone have any advice as to what's needed to have P3DV5 interface with headtracking software?

[Lewis - A2A]

Wouldn't be without my VR esp now we are at the generation where resolution isn't as much a factor,.. Though lets me honest even with early generation VR's, its lower res still beat a monitor purely because one of them you are controlling a fake flat plane on a screen, the other you are sat inside the actual aircraft in the moment with full 3d and depth perception, meaning pretty much every aspec of piloting is more real because of the head movements and the depth allowing nice control during landing phase.

But just a heads up TrackIR is not a comparable thing to VR. Its like saying "Peeled Orange vs Apple computers"

And lastly I'll finish on this, if you are going to invest in VR (though its cheaper than consoles for the quest 2) then do make sure you make the most of it, spending £299-£1000 on a VR system is great but in order to get the most bang for buck for gods sake do open your self to as many experiences as you can. Flight sim in a chair, sim racing is fun as a seated experience, there are stunning room scale standing games (seeing a bad guy in a game in full scale coming at you is really quiet something) and such experiences being able to be enjoyed in Multiplayer so its like having your fellow play mates right there stood in your room is a stunning truly special experience. VR is great as a family entertainment system too of course, and my wife and my kids all enjoy VR for either fitness reasons (wife loves the fitness based games) or for general gaming.

cheers,
Lewis - A2A