The A2A Simulations Community

Ron Attwood wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 12:09

DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 11:44

Ron Attwood wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 11:25

Hang in there Dudley, you've got....er...er...Personality, yeah, personality on your side.

Boy.....................am I in trouble !!!!!!!!!!!! ))

I'm certain you've got out of tighter spots.

I've had my share for sure.
The guys did a good job handling this one. Good sound procedure. They "worked the problem" to a logical planned out solution. I couldn't have done it any better.
DH

Hey, it was a good landing, and eventually you will be able to use the airplane again.
Glad you guys walked away OK.

Wow, just saw this. Glad to hear everyone is ok. The airplane comes second. Looks like she'll fly again. Great job, Scott and Jake!

twsharp12 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 10:50 Glad you're safe and hope you get the hydraulics fixed and everything working smooth again.
Did you ever think about burning off more fuel before the landing?

Yes, but the only time risk of fire was an issue is if we had a gear collapse or landed on two wheels with a wing scraping. With a suspected hydraulic leak we had limited time before the nose and right gear would come which would force us into that situation. Knowing we were unable to get all three gear down, we went with the safest option, a controlled gear up landing.

Scott

Makes sense. Figured you had a good reason.

Scott - A2A wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 14:04

twsharp12 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 10:50 Glad you're safe and hope you get the hydraulics fixed and everything working smooth again.
Did you ever think about burning off more fuel before the landing?

Yes, but the only time risk of fire was an issue is if we had a gear collapse or landed on two wheels with a wing scraping. With a suspected hydraulic leak we had limited time before the nose and right gear would come which would force us into that situation. Knowing we were unable to get all three gear down, we went with the safest option, a controlled gear up landing.

Scott

A good example why you need to know the systems and fail safes of the aircraft you’re flying.

Happy flying

Wow, that's immense. At my local field I was about to retrieve one of my 172s from the avionics shop last week and a 210 RG unfortunately went down the runway belly first. I was in my boss's car and witnessed the whole thing happen and kept saying "Surely he's going around? Nope... he's not.... This is going to cost a lot..."

Poor old guy inside the plane just looked completely flustered..

Swagger897 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 17:08 Wow, that's immense. At my local field I was about to retrieve one of my 172s from the avionics shop last week and a 210 RG unfortunately went down the runway belly first. I was in my boss's car and witnessed the whole thing happen and kept saying "Surely he's going around? Nope... he's not.... This is going to cost a lot..."

Poor old guy inside the plane just looked completely flustered..

I fought with the gear system in a 210 for nearly 3 hours during a charter one afternoon. Cessna hired maniacs to design the landing gear system on the 210. LOL

Dudley Henriques

DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 17:39

Swagger897 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 17:08 Wow, that's immense. At my local field I was about to retrieve one of my 172s from the avionics shop last week and a 210 RG unfortunately went down the runway belly first. I was in my boss's car and witnessed the whole thing happen and kept saying "Surely he's going around? Nope... he's not.... This is going to cost a lot..."

Poor old guy inside the plane just looked completely flustered..

I fought with the gear system in a 210 for nearly 3 hours during a charter one afternoon. Cessna hired maniacs to design the landing gear system on the 210. LOL

Dudley Henriques

Any of the Cessna high wing RG's are just scary to work on really. Performing gear ops checks is the number one thing I hate to do. The funny/sad part about what happened last week though is that once the crane came in to pick it up, they swung the gear and towed it to its hangar without a problem.

Scott - A2A wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 14:04

twsharp12 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 10:50 Glad you're safe and hope you get the hydraulics fixed and everything working smooth again.
Did you ever think about burning off more fuel before the landing?

Yes, but the only time risk of fire was an issue is if we had a gear collapse or landed on two wheels with a wing scraping. With a suspected hydraulic leak we had limited time before the nose and right gear would come which would force us into that situation. Knowing we were unable to get all three gear down, we went with the safest option, a controlled gear up landing.

Scott

In fact, this lack of gear uplocks is a design detail I am not a huge fan of in the Aerostar. Even less so knowing that the early builds in original configuration relied solely on the RH engine-driven pump for hydraulic pressure. Apparently the electric pump was an option originally, not sure if mandated since. (Losing the right engine at a bad moment and trying desperately to retract the flaps resulting in gear dropping down on its own sounds less than optimal even as an idea!)

-Esa

Scott, I know it's only been a few days, but any initial info on what happened and why the left main wouldn't come down? Just interested. Just as an aside, I wasn't in it, but the Turbo 182RG I did my High Performance & Complex training in had a gear up where the nose gear stuck because a cotter pin wasn't properly installed and backed out inflight, jamming it in the up position. My instructor was onboard and put the plane down on the runway and even got a letter of commendation from the FAA for his good job. He actually had the student shutdown the engine and secure it as he held the nose off after the mains touched. Only damage was the skins of the nose gear doors and the prop needed 2 new blades (determined after teardown of the engine and the first time I was told not to worry too much about the engine in a belly landing).

Swagger897 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 23:10 The funny/sad part about what happened last week though is that once the crane came in to pick it up, they swung the gear and towed it to its hangar without a problem.

I'm not sure why you think this as it's not what happened. The Aerostar gear is heavy and when it's in the up position, with that large wheel at the end of a long strut, it comes down fast when testing. Once it was in the air from the crane, I had to wrestle with the gear and could not get the left gear to lock no matter what I did. We connected the battery and charged the hydraulics and it took about 30 sec before all three gear down lights were illuminated.

Chris (Capflyer), due to the holidays nobody has had a chance to look at it. Also, being at Bradley International it's going to be challenging to find a mechanic willing to jack it up and inspect it. It's possible someone will have to pull the wings and flat bed out out of there.

The current theory is something in the hydraulics failed and something is lodged in the hydraulic system. We know there is blockage somewhere or somehow as the gear just does move easily from hydraulic resistance. It behaves like just a trickle of hydraulic fluid is passing to apply a down force. I have the best Aerostar mechanics on this and we will find out and whatever the cause is and it will end up in an FAA report.

Oh btw, someone somewhere asked "did you try rocking it to lock it?" and the answer is "yes." I also applied a strong positive G to try and pull that left gear down with no effect.

Scott

Scott,

I'm pretty sure he was taking about a separate gear up incident he witnessed last week.

Oracle427 wrote: ↑03 Jan 2021, 10:39 Scott,

I'm pretty sure he was taking about a separate gear up incident he witnessed last week.

Ah OK, thanks for clarifying.

Scott

Cool heads prevailed obviously - well handled. I'm so glad you both walked away from what might have been a much worse outcome.