C172/182 move seats up please

[Kilstorm]

So the announcement about the coming C172 update got me thinking. With this new sim MSFS2020 coming next year, there is a good chance that the entire P3Dv4 product line and perhaps more will be reworked to include PBR and other things like the Bos gauges as so all the products will be factory fresh and have all the same accusim features plus new ones. Well if anyone on the A2A team has VR or if anyone with VR would like to chime in, it seems the C172 and C182 seats and default pilot view has the seat all the way back on the sliders and I was hoping to have that reworked and moved up like the other planes.

In other more current A2A GA planes, the yoke and pedals as seen in the VC in VR almost matches exactly where my yoke and pedal hardware controllers are in my simpit as far as distance from me. Not the same in the C172 and C182. Not only does this look odd in VR but it also puts the user that much more far back from the panel making it that much harder to read. Show stopper...no. Work around to bring the default eye point closer to the windscreen...yes. Does that then have the user sitting on the edge of the seatin VR...yes. A2A standards....no.

So I ask, if A2A you are working on bringing some improvements into the new sim as you bring other planes over, can you please consider this.

That and floats for these two a/c for the new sim

[ilya1502]

I'm not sure about VR, but you can adjust the viewpoint by editing the [Views] section in the aircraft.cfg.

[Lewis - A2A]

No editing needed for VR, Simple find your sweet spot as you do in the real aircraft and then centre the view. Every single aircraft will be different and every single person will be different dependant on setup, desk height, chair height and of course most importantly person height.

The base we give is just that, the basic base. Ive yet to fly or be in an aircraft that didnt require seat adjustment, so I just consider doing this in sim extra immersion, be it for P3D, XP or il-2 in VR etc.

thanks,
Lewis

[Kilstorm]

I'm not sure about VR, but you can adjust the viewpoint by editing the [Views] section in the aircraft.cfg.

From the OP
Work around to bring the default eye point closer to the windscreen...yes. Does that then have the user sitting on the edge of the seat in VR...yes. A2A standards....no

So yes I know I can fix it but the feedback is more to the point of if A2A is going through the effort to revamp their fleet for the coming sim, if they would give this feedback some hard consideration which would require physically moving the seat in the VC forward as well as the viewpoint.

[Kilstorm]

No editing needed for VR, ...

thanks,
Lewis

Lewis, I respectfully disagree. I do agree that fine tuning height might be needed but if A2A were to take my feedback seriously they would understand my point and by doing a small test would see my point. All one has to do is get in the various A2A planes in VR and look around. I tested the two Pipers and the Beech ( I even looked at the B377 and B17.) By looking around and looking down, the user will notice that the point of view is in the middle of the seat set back in the seat and have a normal feel of being correctly sat in the seat as far as visuals. Then looking at the panel and removing the VR headset, one will see that the yoke is located in virtual space where the yoke is located in the simpit within a range of error. In VR the user feels like they can reach out and touch the 3d VC and in doing so the user has an idea of how far they would need to extend their arm to reach it. In the Cessnas everything is too far away. Why? Because the seats are all the way back.

I loaded up the C182 and the Comanche for this test. I started in the VC view in non VR. I used the Ctrl Shift Backspace or Enter keys to get outside the cockpit. As you can see and compare. The C182 is all the way back on the sliders and the Comanche is not. The COmanche is set for an average height person and the C182 is in the normal all the way back to allow the pilot to get in and out. Anyone who has flown a C182 or C172 know to slide all the way back to get in and out but must slide forward to reach the pedals.

This is my point. The starting viewpoint of the Cessnas are too far back and one knows and sees this in VR. This is not up to A2A standards. Passable for released products but fixable for future improvements.




When I sit in the C172 and the C182 to a lesser degree in VR, I feel like I am looking at the panel in one of the posters of what the complete Cessna panels looks like. A Panel familiarization poster. In all the other planes, I feel like I am in the pilot seat, correctly positioned behind the controls ready to fly. Don't believe me, just load up the planes and compare. You will see what I am talking about.

Edit to add. One more quick example is if the user has the Majestic Dash 8 Q400. Go in it in VR. Look straight down in the seat. You will notice that you are sitting at the edge of the front of the seat. Move the move to highlight the seat and left click this will move the seat forward and now the 3d seat looks like you are sitting corretly in the seat. The view point has not changed but the seat has. Using the eyepoint thing on the center windscreen the user can see they are in line with the ideal height and closeness to the panel. The A2A Cessnas are the opposite. We are starting in the seat correctly but with the seat all the way back. I can edit the config or reset my viewpoint in the sim but the end results are having me sitting at the edge of the seat. This can pass for any other airplane maker but I'd like to believe A2A takes attention to those kinds of details as to what separates them from the others.

[Caldemeyn]

Not sure if this has some value but i looked just now at the way the pilot's external model is seating and where are his eyes and then compared it to where the vc viewpoint is. There is something to what Kilstorm is saying. the viewpoint is moved somewhat backwards. As said, not sure how much is that worth though. a small observation.

[Dangerous Beans]

The keyboard commands for moving the view in P3D/FSX work the same in VR so you can move your seat however you want on the fly.
I'm not sure what the default commands are as I remapped mine to the arrow keys as I can still find those OK with my Rift on.

[Kilstorm]

The keyboard commands for moving the view in P3D/FSX work the same in VR so you can move your seat however you want on the fly.
I'm not sure what the default commands are as I remapped mine to the arrow keys as I can still find those OK with my Rift on.

Once again from the OP
Work around to bring the default eye point closer to the windscreen...yes. Does that then have the user sitting on the edge of the seat in VR...yes. A2A standards....no

The purpose of this post is not to fix the current model but to provide feedback that is accurate for A2A to consider correcting if they are going to go through the effort or bring PBR, new accusim features like the Bonanza gauges etc to all the models as they create them for the coming MSFS2020.

[patful]

Right now VR is only a maybe for MSFS 2020 from what I've read, developers said they would try to make it happen.

[Kilstorm]

Your information is slightly tilted. The "maybe" is for the making it into the sim for release but it will be in the sim. Right now its a high priority of things to get in the sim done correctly.

[patful]

https://uploadvr.com/microsoft-flight-simulator-no-vr/

[Kilstorm]

I remember that from two months ago. In a more recent interview with Avsim this was said when asked.
STANDARD: You've already mentioned VR. How high is the topic on the priority list?

Neumann: Very high! Asobo and I have years of experience with VR. We know what a lame-word not allowed and a good implementation look like. We want to find a good solution, for example by cutting the cockpit off from the rest of the world. Then you can move around freely and the world in the background doesn't start to shimmer. We already started with VR, but we want to do it right.

Source
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/5672 ... g-neumann/
Nov 25

[HE11DUDE04]

Just move the camera forward.

[Jarek]

Moving camera forward will not solve the problem described above.

[Lewis - A2A]

Ok, I see. Ill see depending on how things progress into 2020. In the meantime just move the seat as you would a real aircraft, a lot more immersive in VR imo to do this when you first get in the cockpit. And remember esp when it comes to high wing, whats right for you isnt going to be right for everyone so no matter where that 3d seat is, it'll never be right for everyone.

thanks,
Lewis - A2A