A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

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Kilstorm
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A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by Kilstorm »

Feature Discovery Series Episode 3: Aerodynamics

Would love for the A2A team to chime in and give us some insight on this latest video and info since this is very much a huge part of A2A planes. Not asking to have a break in a NDA or provide any info about whats going on at A2A but how they feel about where this new sim is going with how planes and aerodynamics will be modeled. Are these the tools that A2A was hoping for to provide even more feature rich addons? They talk about native icing, 1000 points of contacts and in the release that an SDK is planned to be released well before the actual sim release. It would just be nice to read about from Scott and the gang their thoughts on how, with this new sim, A2A might have new tools to push their products beyond the Accusim of today since the FSX/P3D platform is really the only one they have modeled for and it seems completely unthinkable that A2A would not develop for this new sim.
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by bobsk8 »

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for this info.
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Kilstorm
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

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It would be sad to think the makers of the the new flight sim are providing so much info about the coming product and an A2A member won't even talk about their impressions on what this new sim might offer in new tools that might of held back plane developers like A2A from being able to get the planes to no longer "fly on rails". Especially in the one area that plane makers are most focused in as in this episode.
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by ImpendingJoker »

Kilstorm wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 11:20 It would be sad to think the makers of the the new flight sim are providing so much info about the coming product and an A2A member won't even talk about their impressions on what this new sim might offer in new tools that might of held back plane developers like A2A from being able to get the planes to no longer "fly on rails". Especially in the one area that plane makers are most focused in as in this episode.
No, what he is saying is that A2A staff as a whole is very tight lipped, so don't get your hopes up. They will chime in when it makes sense for them to, and while this is just speculation on my part, I feel as though there is already some A2A involvement, or at least development for this new MSFS. As for myself, the new flight dynamics engine is very promising, as is the air mass simulation. This will put the new MSFS on par with XPlane 11, and then push past it. If they can deliver what they are showing with air currents not just affecting the aircraft but the air being affected by the terrain and buildings themselves, then we are getting ready to enter a whole new level of home simulation, one that not even XPlane 11 currently contains. The inclusion of moments of inertia for things like flaps and retracting landing gear will also be awesome, as you'll be able to feel the CG change as the landing gear lowers and increases it arm.(This is one of the reasons that helicopters with retracts extend them when hovering, it moves the weight further down and away from the aircraft making it more stable, kind like dropping the keel on a sail boat. These are good times to be alive, many sims doing many things right, is an awesome place to be. I had considered XP11 until P3Dv4 dropped, then considered P3Dv4 until news of this dropped. So, I will continue to watch, and see what happens to the market.
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by Jigsaw »

Kilstorm wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 11:20 It would be sad to think the makers of the the new flight sim are providing so much info about the coming product and an A2A member won't even talk about their impressions on what this new sim might offer in new tools that might of held back plane developers like A2A from being able to get the planes to no longer "fly on rails". Especially in the one area that plane makers are most focused in as in this episode.
I'm sure A2A is one of the first of the developers that was approached for collaboration with the MSFS, but since Microsoft wants to reveal the sim's features on their own carefully planned terms, I'm sure there are Non Disclosure Agreements in place that forbid to reveal any information not sanctioned by Microsoft. In other words: they probably would love to talk to us about it, but they can't. ;)
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Kilstorm
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

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Yes they can. I know how NDAs work. I'm not talking about anything other than their thoughts on the public video Episode 3 showcasing what the MSFS team is showing new to what they have done with aerodynamics. WIth the ability to have new ground friction, with 1000 surface contact points, with icing modeled etc. I know A2A has used Accusim as an outside method for FSX/P3D shortcomings and they will need to most likely back out some accusim stuff so that its not redundant or conflicting but I am not wanting to hear about that. Just a simple reply of their reaction to the video and how the MSFS team is going about changes to the sim in an area that would most affect them.
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by Dogsbody55 »

I think it's too early for A2A to chime in here, as the new sim is still in early alpha. I'm very excited about this new sim as it looks like it will finally answer the many short comings of FSX and P3D which have traditionally over simplified many of the facets of flight in the real world.

However, we should not forget that some in both the freeware and payware communities have been working to push the boundaries of what is possible in the flight dynamics of the planes we love in flight sim. These are things that are now being expanded by the MSFS team but currently exist to varying degree in current offerings. I'm talking about things like moments of inertia that occur with flap and undercarriage deployment. If you've ever flown the CalClassics DC-6, you'll be very familiar with the momentary nose down pitch change on flap extension that occurs on the real thing. Others have been pushing the boundaries of aircraft behaviour for years too, especially our friends here at A2A. For instance, drop the landing gear on your Bonanza and see the nose drop. I always find I have to wind on quite a lot of nose up trim at this point to counter the back force now required on the yoke. I usually don't lower the gear until I'm in the allowed flap extension speeds and the difference in the rearward pull on the yoke between clean and gear down is quite marked. Look at the way your Comanche stalls in the sim - just as Scott displays in the real plane.

This sort of behaviour is all down to AccuSim, so in a sense, we A2A customers already have a lot of what is discussed in episode 3 MSFS. So I think we should just wait until A2A are ready to discuss this stuff.


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JJB17463rdBombGroup
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by JJB17463rdBombGroup »

I'll drop the big M Bomb here.
Note this is just my opinion.
If I were Microsoft I would make a huge offer to A2A Simulations for their accusim technology especially with the upcoming new iteration.
Again my personal opinion in which I have no business relationship with either corporation.
Take it serious or not.
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bladerunner900
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by bladerunner900 »

The chance that they may sell at some point, has been on my mind for a long time.

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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by bobsk8 »

ImpendingJoker wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 19:22
Kilstorm wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 11:20 It would be sad to think the makers of the the new flight sim are providing so much info about the coming product and an A2A member won't even talk about their impressions on what this new sim might offer in new tools that might of held back plane developers like A2A from being able to get the planes to no longer "fly on rails". Especially in the one area that plane makers are most focused in as in this episode.
No, what he is saying is that A2A staff as a whole is very tight lipped, so don't get your hopes up. They will chime in when it makes sense for them to, and while this is just speculation on my part, I feel as though there is already some A2A involvement, or at least development for this new MSFS. As for myself, the new flight dynamics engine is very promising, as is the air mass simulation. This will put the new MSFS on par with XPlane 11, and then push past it. If they can deliver what they are showing with air currents not just affecting the aircraft but the air being affected by the terrain and buildings themselves, then we are getting ready to enter a whole new level of home simulation, one that not even XPlane 11 currently contains. The inclusion of moments of inertia for things like flaps and retracting landing gear will also be awesome, as you'll be able to feel the CG change as the landing gear lowers and increases it arm.(This is one of the reasons that helicopters with retracts extend them when hovering, it moves the weight further down and away from the aircraft making it more stable, kind like dropping the keel on a sail boat. These are good times to be alive, many sims doing many things right, is an awesome place to be. I had considered XP11 until P3Dv4 dropped, then considered P3Dv4 until news of this dropped. So, I will continue to watch, and see what happens to the market.
Hopefully it is much better than XP11. I have never flown an aircraft in XP that I felt handled like a real aircraft.
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by n421nj »

Jigsaw wrote: 23 Nov 2019, 04:38
Kilstorm wrote: 22 Nov 2019, 11:20 It would be sad to think the makers of the the new flight sim are providing so much info about the coming product and an A2A member won't even talk about their impressions on what this new sim might offer in new tools that might of held back plane developers like A2A from being able to get the planes to no longer "fly on rails". Especially in the one area that plane makers are most focused in as in this episode.
I'm sure A2A is one of the first of the developers that was approached for collaboration with the MSFS, but since Microsoft wants to reveal the sim's features on their own carefully planned terms, I'm sure there are Non Disclosure Agreements in place that forbid to reveal any information not sanctioned by Microsoft. In other words: they probably would love to talk to us about it, but they can't. ;)
Bingo. Hit the nail on the head. All will be revealed in due time.
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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by Dogsbody55 »

Just seen episode 4 and they show you their cold and dark start up sequence using a checklist - straight out of Flight Sim World!! I wonder how much else from that sim will be in MSFS2020? I'm also wondering if the sudden closure of FSW was because MS and Dovetail reached agreement about the future of Flight Sim development. I'm sure that Dovetail got themselves into some financial mire and what I saw in episode 4 makes me think that there's an element of MS bailing them out.


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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by MarcE »

Dogsbody55 wrote: 30 Nov 2019, 23:24 Just seen episode 4 and they show you their cold and dark start up sequence using a checklist - straight out of Flight Sim World!! I wonder how much else from that sim will be in MSFS2020? I'm also wondering if the sudden closure of FSW was because MS and Dovetail reached agreement about the future of Flight Sim development. I'm sure that Dovetail got themselves into some financial mire and what I saw in episode 4 makes me think that there's an element of MS bailing them out.


Cheers,
Mike
I haven‘t seen ep4 nor have I really followed FSW but „start up following a checklist“ would be the same wrong crap as some other devs do today... they mistake flows for checklists and vice versa. Never „Fuel pump on, check fuel pressure, mags start etc“ would find itself on a checklist. It‘s as short as possible and finalizes as flow or procedure... before taxi, everything done that I need? —> checklist. Before takeoff? Nothing forgot? —> checklist. But never ever a checklist covers a how-to for a power up and engine start..

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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by patful »

MarcE wrote: 01 Dec 2019, 02:37 I haven‘t seen ep4 nor have I really followed FSW but „start up following a checklist“ would be the same wrong crap as some other devs do today...
They said it was optional, I'm assuming for the Xbox casual flying-as-a-game folks.

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Re: A2A, talk to us about Episode 3 MSFS

Post by ImpendingJoker »

MarcE wrote: 01 Dec 2019, 02:37
Dogsbody55 wrote: 30 Nov 2019, 23:24 Just seen episode 4 and they show you their cold and dark start up sequence using a checklist - straight out of Flight Sim World!! I wonder how much else from that sim will be in MSFS2020? I'm also wondering if the sudden closure of FSW was because MS and Dovetail reached agreement about the future of Flight Sim development. I'm sure that Dovetail got themselves into some financial mire and what I saw in episode 4 makes me think that there's an element of MS bailing them out.


Cheers,
Mike
I haven‘t seen ep4 nor have I really followed FSW but „start up following a checklist“ would be the same wrong crap as some other devs do today... they mistake flows for checklists and vice versa. Never „Fuel pump on, check fuel pressure, mags start etc“ would find itself on a checklist. It‘s as short as possible and finalizes as flow or procedure... before taxi, everything done that I need? —> checklist. Before takeoff? Nothing forgot? —> checklist. But never ever a checklist covers a how-to for a power up and engine start..

Well every real plane I have started up used a check list, so I don't see how that would be wrong, second, this is not FSW, this is the new Microsoft Flight Simulator, and if you haven't been following, you really should be. Aside from A2A no FSX/P3D plane is check list perfect, there are even differences between aircraft of the same make.
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