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Re: Can you spot the pilots mistake(s?) on take off?
Posted: 02 Dec 2017, 12:29
by Redglyph
CAPFlyer wrote:I rarely see or hear of procedures/flows and checklists being mixed up being a factor in accidents. It's the base training of the pilot or their decision that they "don't need" a checklist becuase they've got them memorized that lead to things being missed that start, contribute to, or are the final link in the accident chain. Confusing a checklist item for a flow in itself will only make the reaction time different because a flow is still backed up by a checklist when it's done, and as long as the checklist is used as designed, you'll still catch any mistakes. In this case, he admits he wasn't taught to do this, and that's what caused the issue. The other thing I've seen a lot and really like is that more and more pilots are being taught to verbalize their flows as well even when alone as a technique to help keep from missing items.
I never said confusing both were a source of accident, and I did say this was not the problem here. That wasn't the point.
Re: Can you spot the pilots mistake(s?) on take off?
Posted: 02 Dec 2017, 14:07
by DHenriques_
CAPFlyer wrote:I rarely see or hear of procedures/flows and checklists being mixed up being a factor in accidents. It's the base training of the pilot or their decision that they "don't need" a checklist becuase they've got them memorized that lead to things being missed that start, contribute to, or are the final link in the accident chain. Confusing a checklist item for a flow in itself will only make the reaction time different because a flow is still backed up by a checklist when it's done, and as long as the checklist is used as designed, you'll still catch any mistakes. In this case, he admits he wasn't taught to do this, and that's what caused the issue. The other thing I've seen a lot and really like is that more and more pilots are being taught to verbalize their flows as well even when alone as a technique to help keep from missing items.
There are various ways and means when it comes down to checklists and how best to use them. The general method in use today's professional community is actually a combination of flow pattern and a final item check off using a checklist. The key here is that the checklist isn't used as a "I must do this now" list but rather as a " Verifying I did it" checklist.
Personally I have always used this method coupled with verbal verification as I touched the item in question. Finally IN ADDITION to this I always used a final approach mnemonic.
Dudley Henriques
Re: Can you spot the pilots mistake(s?) on take off?
Posted: 02 Dec 2017, 14:37
by AKar
Yeah, I've always wondered why it is so difficult to gasp for it is in its name and everything: a checklist. Not a to-do list, or a step list. Do as you do and see fitting (and a professional or a trained person ought to know how to do something without a cheat sheet) and then verify with the list.
-Esa