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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:20 am 
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Technical Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:10 am
Posts: 843
Location: Arendal, Norway
Scott - A2A wrote:
First, I agree with Dudley not to make this look "gamey" as this is the way we've always made our approach to sims.

Also, I'm not sure about the keys on the dash, as this is sort of pushing the pilot into a pre-defined systematic way of doing things. Some follow checklists, some don't, some use acronyms, etc. For example, you could put the keys in the ignition first when you get in the airplane, then go through your list, etc.

The way I see this is, if the following conditions are met:
- Window opened
- Electrics on
- Engine off

A subtle: "Clear Prop" text could appear

Personally, I like the idea because I'm not going to yell "Clear prop" every time at the sim. The reality is I don't in the sim (some may prefer to do this and that is perfectly fine), but do always in the real plane. So I think having the sim allow this is a good thing, especially for training.

Scott.


As long as the text is extremely subtle I agree this is the easier solution which doesn’t force anyone to have to conform to any standard procedure with the keys.

Speaking of subtle. Is it then possible to get the smallest, most tiny and subtle color marking somewhere on or near the POH in the planes? For indicating the cabin temp?
This is to get a quick feel of the temp without seeing the pilot notes with all the digital range/gph-stuff. I like to do my own calculations, and it would be nice to get the general temperature feel without getting all that extra info. :)

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All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:02 am 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:04 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Birmingham, England
Hi Scott,

staying on topic: I remove chocks and ties and pitot cover, I get in plane, open side window to prevent glass steaming up (still hoping Tug doesn't get wind off this), switch battery on, switch pitot on, scan instruments, lower and raise flaps, switch pitot off, switch battery off. Then I do (external) pre-flight, including check to see the pitot has warmed.

Have I already, and very prematurely, triggered the "clear prop" by opening window and switching battery on?

I like your idea of a subtle text prompt to "clear prop" (what would be my response output?). Relatively sane (disputed by wife and daughters) I assure you I don't sit alone in front of PC 'n yell "clear prop". (OK, I confess to muttering this a couple of times, mum's the word!)

Rod
Birmingham , UK


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:48 am 
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Technical Sergeant

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:39 am
Posts: 696
Location: Southern Germany
Scott - A2A wrote:
First, I agree with Dudley not to make this look "gamey" as this is the way we've always made our approach to sims.

Also, I'm not sure about the keys on the dash, as this is sort of pushing the pilot into a pre-defined systematic way of doing things. Some follow checklists, some don't, some use acronyms, etc. For example, you could put the keys in the ignition first when you get in the airplane, then go through your list, etc.

The way I see this is, if the following conditions are met:
- Window opened
- Electrics on
- Engine off

A subtle: "Clear Prop" text could appear

Personally, I like the idea because I'm not going to yell "Clear prop" every time at the sim. The reality is I don't in the sim (some may prefer to do this and that is perfectly fine), but do always in the real plane. So I think having the sim allow this is a good thing, especially for training.

Scott.



another idea would be to make a placard that is sticked onto or close to the window reminding "call clear prop" like the placards that say "gear down limit 120 ias" or "no smoking". click it and hear a clear prop call. I think it would be immersion friendly and comprehensible.

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Staff Sergeant
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 411
Scott - A2A wrote:
Thinking about it, for the simulator, we could think of calling "clear prop" in the same way we do any other part of the check list. The question is how do we easily allow the user to trigger this call? First, you have to have a window opened so what about this:

When you open a window while on the ground with the engine off (or a canopy), you will see a little pop up appear next to the window that maybe shows a little icon with a mouth opened saying "Clear PROP!" So all you do, is click on this and you will hear the voice? And depending on who is sitting in the pilot's seat will depend on the voice being female or male.

Scott.


I would say window open and first click on the mag would trigger the call. So if the user has the side window open and the mags off, when they move the mag from off to its first position (mag left?) you get the clear prop. No window open, no call. That way you dont here it during run up checks because one normally closes the window during that phase. But since it would be an action of going from off to mag 1, it shouldnt be a factor anyway because you dont do that during run up checks anyway.

That also solves the issue of warbirds that dont have keys because they still have mags. For planes like the Texan that you might start before adding mags you can just click on the mag before starting and then turn them back off. That way you get the call and then you can start the plane like normal. A second call would require a complete shut down of battery could also be a way to prevent second clear prop calls

Lastly one can wait to their own liken the amount of time after the call before they start to turn over the engine. Want to wait a bit, click the mags from off to mag 1 and then wait, dont want to wait long, just click from mags off to mag 1 and then slowly click to mag 2, both and start.

not a fan of the idea of having to click on something to get the call, would rather see it coded as something that happens based on procedures or events. I always leave my side window open when i park the plane to prevent fogging when I get in the plane next time I start the sim.

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Technical Sergeant
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:27 pm
Posts: 614
Since flying A2A airplanes, I've been watching lots of YouTube videos about flying, both sim and IRL. First it was Sim CFI. Then came FS MaNiA, Country Flyboy, Frooglesim, and others. It was an easy move over to Flight Chops, Stevo1kinevo, and recently, FLY8MA.com.

Just about all the YouTube flight sim guys announce "Clear Prop" before starting the engine. I've never seen anybody complain about this.

Another thing: When I'm in the pattern, I find that glancing at the radio window to figure out which key to press or where to click the mouse seriously detracts from the "precision" of my approach. I've been trying to announce my progress in the pattern by saying my radio call. I got this one from Sim CFI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCA-dYlie78. "Arlington Traffic, Texan November 7231 Charlie, right downwind 16, Arlington" ... and so on. I believe this adds to, rather than detracts from, the immersion. OK, full discosure: now instead of being distracted trying to press the correct number key for the appropriate place in the pattern, I get flustered trying to say the correct call. But think how great it will after I finally get it down!

One more thing: It appears that a lot of A2A pilots may not speak English as their primary language. Will there be a choice as to which language is used for the CLEAR PROP call?

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:01 pm 
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A2A Chief Pilot
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4298
Location: East Coast United States
Kilstorm wrote:
Scott - A2A wrote:
Thinking about it, for the simulator, we could think of calling "clear prop" in the same way we do any other part of the check list. The question is how do we easily allow the user to trigger this call? First, you have to have a window opened so what about this:

When you open a window while on the ground with the engine off (or a canopy), you will see a little pop up appear next to the window that maybe shows a little icon with a mouth opened saying "Clear PROP!" So all you do, is click on this and you will hear the voice? And depending on who is sitting in the pilot's seat will depend on the voice being female or male.

Scott.


I would say window open and first click on the mag would trigger the call. So if the user has the side window open and the mags off, when they move the mag from off to its first position (mag left?) you get the clear prop. No window open, no call. That way you dont here it during run up checks because one normally closes the window during that phase. But since it would be an action of going from off to mag 1, it shouldnt be a factor anyway because you dont do that during run up checks anyway.

That also solves the issue of warbirds that dont have keys because they still have mags. For planes like the Texan that you might start before adding mags you can just click on the mag before starting and then turn them back off. That way you get the call and then you can start the plane like normal. A second call would require a complete shut down of battery could also be a way to prevent second clear prop calls

Lastly one can wait to their own liken the amount of time after the call before they start to turn over the engine. Want to wait a bit, click the mags from off to mag 1 and then wait, dont want to wait long, just click from mags off to mag 1 and then slowly click to mag 2, both and start.

not a fan of the idea of having to click on something to get the call, would rather see it coded as something that happens based on procedures or events. I always leave my side window open when i park the plane to prevent fogging when I get in the plane next time I start the sim.


The problem with using the mag switch is that it goes directly against our desire to see A2A product usable as a training aid to the real world community. In the real world these should be a definite prolonged space between the clear prop call and even touching the mag switch.
To do it with optimum and real world application and effect we need to let the sim pilot have the means to see the clear prop prompt on the checklist then have the means to click an icon devoted to the call. The location of that icon be it a gui or text is up for grabs. My personal choice of sequence and location would be 1. See the call listed on the checklist in its proper order before the start. 2. Create an opening for the call, be that the small window or an open canopy, 3. Click the icon to get the verbal "CLEAR PROP".
Whatever we do it should be in a natural sequence that a CFI would allow for any student so that it totally fits with our marketing to the real world pilot community.
DH


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Posts: 614
My Comanche already has "Clear Prop!" in the pre-start checklist. It's not just good, it's good enough!

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Last edited by Paughco on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 579
The minimum needed to get started is a wav. file that yells clear prop and a way to play it from a key press while in game.

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Some old computer stuff, some A2A airplanes, some Orbx scenery, and that's about it. I forget exactly what.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Airman

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:36 pm
Posts: 20
I feel it would be natural to look to the window when calling the clear prop call. So if open and closing the window is done with the left mouse button, is it possible to use a right mouse click on the window to trigger the audio? This way I figure it’s not interfering in any way and can be done whenever you are ready?


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:58 am 
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Master Sergeant
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Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 1063
Location: EGBO
Why not use the Ash Tray ?
I know the Comanche has one next to the small window.....plus it's already clickable!
You wouldn't even necessarily need an 'icon' on it as it's clickable. It would only work when the engine is off prior to starting.
Can't remember off the top of my head if the Cherokee has one too? But I know a lot of the aircraft have at least a lighter or some other unobtrusive potential clicky area!

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 579
i wonder if FSUIPC can be made to play a audio file from a key press?

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:55 pm 
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Staff Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:06 am
Posts: 317
bullfox wrote:
i wonder if FSUIPC can be made to play a audio file from a key press?


I know Voice Attack can - $10.00 - personally - I use it for a full virtual copilot on all aircraft certified for two pilot operation - and interaction with ATC (RC4) - so I don’t have to hunt and peck numeric responses...

Regards,
Scott



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