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 Post subject: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Airman

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:00 pm
Posts: 30
A2A,

Could you possibly incorporate a clear prop audio sound on your next GA release? I feel really stupid when I’m teaching someone to fly on the sim and yelling “Clear” out the window before starting. Lol.

Or am I the only person that thinks this way?


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Master Sergeant

Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:48 am
Posts: 1162
Location: Oksbøl, Denmark
I'm not a RW pilot, but I sometimes open my door and yell "CLEAR PROP" before starting my car.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Tomas

Accu-Sim aircraft in my hangar:
C172, C182, P51 Civ, P51 Mil, B17, Spitfire, P47, B377 COTS, J3 Cub, T6, Connie


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 5194
One add-on which I remember actually included a clear prop sound effect was the ReaAir Citabria/Decathlon/Scout package. Trouble is, the "prop" call happened at pretty much as the same instant that the engine fired, which kind of defeats the point of a warning. In other words, you'd need to map a "clear prop" call to a specific function you triggered before engine start to avoid getting into bad habits.

Besides, authentic real-world yelling uses less code! :wink:

Nick


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:22 pm 
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A2A Chief Pilot
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Posts: 4296
Location: East Coast United States
Nick M wrote:
One add-on which I remember actually included a clear prop sound effect was the ReaAir Citabria/Decathlon/Scout package. Trouble is, the "prop" call happened at pretty much as the same instant that the engine fired, which kind of defeats the point of a warning. In other words, you'd need to map a "clear prop" call to a specific function you triggered before engine start to avoid getting into bad habits.

Besides, authentic real-world yelling uses less code! :wink:

Nick


Actually it's a very good idea and would enhance immersion. It shouldn't be too hard to program this as a key function that could be used manually instead of in the start sequence by the sim pilot. In other words you see the call on your checklist then you must hit the key to get the audible call "Clear Prop!"
I like it both from the immersion AND from the CFI standpoint for training.
I'll copy this to Scott for a possible inclusion in an update.
Dudley Henriques


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Technical Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:10 am
Posts: 839
Location: Arendal, Norway
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
Nick M wrote:
One add-on which I remember actually included a clear prop sound effect was the ReaAir Citabria/Decathlon/Scout package. Trouble is, the "prop" call happened at pretty much as the same instant that the engine fired, which kind of defeats the point of a warning. In other words, you'd need to map a "clear prop" call to a specific function you triggered before engine start to avoid getting into bad habits.

Besides, authentic real-world yelling uses less code! :wink:

Nick


Actually it's a very good idea and would enhance immersion. It shouldn't be too hard to program this as a key function that could be used manually instead of in the start sequence by the sim pilot. In other words you see the call on your checklist then you must hit the key to get the audible call "Clear Prop!"
I like it both from the immersion AND from the CFI standpoint for training.
I'll copy this to Scott for a possible inclusion in an update.
Dudley Henriques


Ahhh. The possibilities of Accu-Bystander... Realistic modelling of silly people waddling around and, perhaps, into the fan.

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Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:15 pm 
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A2A Chief Pilot
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4296
Location: East Coast United States
Medtner wrote:
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
Nick M wrote:
One add-on which I remember actually included a clear prop sound effect was the ReaAir Citabria/Decathlon/Scout package. Trouble is, the "prop" call happened at pretty much as the same instant that the engine fired, which kind of defeats the point of a warning. In other words, you'd need to map a "clear prop" call to a specific function you triggered before engine start to avoid getting into bad habits.

Besides, authentic real-world yelling uses less code! :wink:

Nick


Actually it's a very good idea and would enhance immersion. It shouldn't be too hard to program this as a key function that could be used manually instead of in the start sequence by the sim pilot. In other words you see the call on your checklist then you must hit the key to get the audible call "Clear Prop!"
I like it both from the immersion AND from the CFI standpoint for training.
I'll copy this to Scott for a possible inclusion in an update.
Dudley Henriques


Ahhh. The possibilities of Accu-Bystander... Realistic modelling of silly people waddling around and, perhaps, into the fan.


It was for this exact reason that the first official order I issued after taking over a Part 61 operation was a formal notice calling for the company pilots giving passenger rides on week ends to walk in's to completely shut down their engines between rides.
Deplaning and boarding passengers with running engines which had been the practice was a tragedy waiting to happen.
Dudley Henriques


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Technical Sergeant
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Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 12:53 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
Medtner wrote:

Ahhh. The possibilities of Accu-Bystander... Realistic modelling of silly people waddling around and, perhaps, into the fan.


It was for this exact reason that the first official order I issued after taking over a Part 61 operation was a formal notice calling for the company pilots giving passenger rides on week ends to walk in's to completely shut down their engines between rides.
Deplaning and boarding passengers with running engines which had been the practice was a tragedy waiting to happen.
Dudley Henriques


There was a CFI down in Ft Lauderdale exec many years ago, that soloed one of his students. The student's mother had come to the FBO to watch her teenage son solo. When they pulled up to the tie down point on the ramp after the three touch and goes and the CFI climbing back into the cockpit , the mother ran over to congratulate her son, and ran right into the still spinning prop. That CFI never got over that, and committed suicide about a year later. Will always remember that story.
t

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:55 pm 
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A2A Chief Pilot
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4296
Location: East Coast United States
bobsk8 wrote:
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
Medtner wrote:

Ahhh. The possibilities of Accu-Bystander... Realistic modelling of silly people waddling around and, perhaps, into the fan.


It was for this exact reason that the first official order I issued after taking over a Part 61 operation was a formal notice calling for the company pilots giving passenger rides on week ends to walk in's to completely shut down their engines between rides.
Deplaning and boarding passengers with running engines which had been the practice was a tragedy waiting to happen.
Dudley Henriques


There was a CFI down in Ft Lauderdale exec many years ago, that soloed one of his students. The student's mother had come to the FBO to watch her teenage son solo. When they pulled up to the tie down point on the ramp after the three touch and goes and the CFI climbing back into the cockpit , the mother ran over to congratulate her son, and ran right into the still spinning prop. That CFI never got over that, and committed suicide about a year later. Will always remember that story.
t


I had a sign over my desk in my flight office for many years that read;
"Some people like to say we learn from our mistakes. Not always so in aviation."
Dudley Henriques


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Airman

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:00 pm
Posts: 30
Tomas Linnet wrote:
I'm not a RW pilot, but I sometimes open my door and yell "CLEAR PROP" before starting my car.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Shouldn’t you say “Clear hood”?? Lol :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:52 am 
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Technical Sergeant

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:39 am
Posts: 696
Location: Southern Germany
I've never seen (yes, heard) anyone shouting "clear prop" in Europe... And I haven't learnt to do so. I was tought to take care of my surroundings. Honestly, this would have to have an on/off button for regional demand :D

BTW: When you look videos where people shout their "clear prop" and starting the engine a second after... where's the sense? How does anyone know their (front) prop is clear? Below the line it's an insurance thing for the manufacturer to prevent getting sued for millions.. And I really can stay rid of that... There are still some benefits from flying on a simulator :D

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An antique aircraft is like your best friend's wife:
Look and admire...
BUT DO NOT TOUCH!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:23 am 
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Chief Master Sergeant
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 5:03 am
Posts: 3448
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
It was for this exact reason that the first official order I issued after taking over a Part 61 operation was a formal notice calling for the company pilots giving passenger rides on week ends to walk in's to completely shut down their engines between rides.
Deplaning and boarding passengers with running engines which had been the practice was a tragedy waiting to happen.
Dudley Henriques
Years back, as a ground crew member we did hot seating and hot refueling to F-18s. Obviously, everyone was thoroughly briefed and every step was planned in advance (for how long any plan holds in reality anyway). When hot seating, the LH engine was shut down because the integrated ladder under the left leading edge extension was within the intake danger area, RH was left running.

I still remember the slide that was shown as a reminder of the risks. It was a common practice to attach the grounding wire to the grounding point on the center line external fuel tank. This grounding point is immediately in front of the right hand engine intake. Apparently someone somewhere once followed his habits during hot refueling. In the photograph, the grounding wire went into the engine intake from where some blood stains were visible.

I always had shivers when crawling to check the fan blades.

-Esa


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:09 am 
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A2A Chief Pilot
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4296
Location: East Coast United States
MarcE wrote:
I've never seen (yes, heard) anyone shouting "clear prop" in Europe... And I haven't learnt to do so. I was tought to take care of my surroundings. Honestly, this would have to have an on/off button for regional demand :D

BTW: When you look videos where people shout their "clear prop" and starting the engine a second after... where's the sense? How does anyone know their (front) prop is clear? Below the line it's an insurance thing for the manufacturer to prevent getting sued for millions.. And I really can stay rid of that... There are still some benefits from flying on a simulator :D


You NEVER call "Clear Prop" and start an engine "seconds later". You wait for a response. That wait is the reason for the call. Doing that shows improper training. NOT doing that completely negates the call.
Shouting "clear prop" was never meant to be a magic bullet solution to prevent propeller injury. It's simply a step that provides an added level of prevention. It works. Can't speak for the UK but we use it in the US and I for one highly recommend the practice.
There are literally thousands of recorded incidents where shouting "clear prop" have actually prevented a serious injury, two of those incidents I can recall as a personal experience.
Dudley Henriques


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:30 am 
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Technical Sergeant
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Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 12:53 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
MarcE wrote:
I've never seen (yes, heard) anyone shouting "clear prop" in Europe... And I haven't learnt to do so. I was tought to take care of my surroundings. Honestly, this would have to have an on/off button for regional demand :D

BTW: When you look videos where people shout their "clear prop" and starting the engine a second after... where's the sense? How does anyone know their (front) prop is clear? Below the line it's an insurance thing for the manufacturer to prevent getting sued for millions.. And I really can stay rid of that... There are still some benefits from flying on a simulator :D


You NEVER call "Clear Prop" and start an engine "seconds later". You wait for a response. That wait is the reason for the call. Doing that shows improper training. NOT doing that completely negates the call.
Shouting "clear prop" was never meant to be a magic bullet solution to prevent propeller injury. It's simply a step that provides an added level of prevention. It works. Can't speak for the UK but we use it in the US and I for one highly recommend the practice.
There are literally thousands of recorded incidents where shouting "clear prop" have actually prevented a serious injury, two of those incidents I can recall as a personal experience.
Dudley Henriques


Not calling " clear prop", is dangerous, irresponsible, and frankly stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Staff Sergeant
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:32 am
Posts: 492
Location: Manchester, UK
We certainly do it in the uk. I have noticed a lot of people seem to have forgotten the reason though and say it like it’s some special call out when starting up. I shout it like I’m commanding someone to clear it and I allow for a response. So many use a silly inflection as the pretty much turn the key.
Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Clear Prop Option
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Chief Master Sergeant

Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:01 pm
Posts: 3057
Location: kCDW
I think it would be cool to have incorporated but can’t see how it would be done except maybe as a checklist item. I don’t want an independent button for it and don’t want it going off as the prop is turning. As a novelty of a checklist is where it would fit best but only as that a novelty, I’d rather see the code space used for something more important like side loading on landing gear causing them to break or smoke inside the VC during electrical fire

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ASUS P8Z77-V PRO, Intel i7 3770K, Nvidia GTX 680i, 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1866 RAM, Corsair H90i liquid cooler.

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