Flight Sim World

This is the place where we can all meet and speak about whatever is on the mind.
User avatar
addman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 387
Joined: 11 May 2012
Location: Swede in Finland =)

Re: Flight Sim World

Post addman »

AKar wrote:FWIW, Mr. Randazzo's (from PMDG) view on some aspects of new development.

-Esa
Can't blame a company for wanting to make money, PMDG is a profit-driven company, right? Not charity. It's not like PMDG charges pennies for their goods exactly. There's no hidden motives here, it's like saying Valve has a hidden agenda trying to make money through their distribution channel (Steam, the worlds largest games distribution client). It's like, duh! Yes, of course they all want to make money, that's why they exist, partly.

This is just like when FSX steam edition came out, all the nay-sayers crying that FSX was now under the "evil" control of Dovetail and Steam. Steam, the horrible CIA spy application that destroys your computer once it's finished going through your well-hidden p*rn collection. When Dovetail announced FSX:SE I almost immediately thought, why? why would this company just take old code like FSX and throw it out on Steam? Sure it turned out that they actually sold quite a few copies, to a lot of people that maybe wouldn't otherwise go through all the hassle of tracking down an old FSX gold edition DVD from ebay or something. I knew then already that they got the license from MS for FSX so they test the market for third-party add-ons through Steam. After all, FSX has a HUUUGE third-party market but it is extremely fragmented with tons of different developers selling tons of different stuff at tons of different online vendors. Dovetail saw the potential, which for some explicable reason, no one else had noticed of selling a lot of third-party stuff through their own channels. Taking the old FSX code and refurbishing it is a big investment for Dovetail but the payoff of getting third-party selling through their channels will be enormous.

Personally, I see this as a good thing for both developers AND consumers, why? I'll tell you why:

1. No more fragmentation, all the stuff you want or need will be found at one single vendor Dovetails store.
2. Updates for products will most likely be less of a hassle to track down and download.
3. Developers will no longer need to have their own costly websites, support sites or stores. They can focus precious time on developing instead of managing a whole business.
4. Rules and framework that will benefit both developers and consumers, no scamming or such.
5. A semi-new sim platform that will receive continued support and updates.

I get why some established developers, like PMDG, are getting a bit jittery. They have an already established infrastructure of development and investments towards that. For new or smaller developers though, I think this would be a good thing. They can just do the development part and let Dovetail handle all the boring stuff, that's what Dovetail will be charging for right? It's called publishing and it isn't actually a new thing within the electronic entertainment industry. Opinions may differ but the above is my take on things, so far.

Cheers!/Andreas
Cheers!/Andreas


Image
Image

User avatar
Oracle427
Chief Master Sergeant
Posts: 3806
Joined: 02 Sep 2013

Re: Flight Sim World

Post Oracle427 »

I generally avoid buying from small third party developers. I've had too many bad problems over the years with broken links, fly by night, etc.

I will only make purchases directly from 3rd party devs if see enough support and a track record to make me comfortable. I don't want to spread out my information on yet another site with unknown security practices.

If it's on Steam, I will make the purchase more readily. I am surprised that they take such a cut on the sales though. It sounds steep, but I guess that is what the market is going for.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel

User avatar
AKar
A2A Mechanic
Posts: 4517
Joined: 26 May 2013

Re: Flight Sim World

Post AKar »

It comes without saying, that these kind of things are complicated, I don't have any personal opinion way or another before we've got more information at hand. Personally, I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker if an addon developer decided to go "official", but added the extra overhead directly into the pricing. But I do see that some developers could have an issue if it turns out that the profits from official DLC content are partly distributed to the stock content providers as a part of the original licensing deal in between them and Dovetail. In principle, that would create a scheme where a part your sales income can end up into your direct competitor's hands, if they want to think like that. Again, not saying that it would be that way, but I wouldn't be surprised, given how expensive some of these products are purchased stand-alone. Because P3D is de facto treated as if an alternate product, even if it technically wasn't, I could see that if some big devs decided to leave out of FSW... that would cause some head-scratching, as the common market as it stands would split apart.

But of course, that's just speculation with very little actual information out there. Interesting times, nevertheless. :)

-Esa

User avatar
CAPFlyer
A2A Aviation Consultant
Posts: 2219
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA

Re: Flight Sim World

Post CAPFlyer »

Torg Smith wrote:
CAPFlyer wrote: Also, there is no talk of microtransactions ANYWHERE with FSW. I've now seen 2 posts in different forums referencing it, and at no time has that been in any communications to that effect so anyone talking about it is simply spreading unfounded rumors for their own negative purposes, not because there's truth to it.
I believe the people are referring to Dovetail building and selling aircraft and scenery as DLC. They do this for their train simulator and I would be incredibly surprised if they did not do it for FSW. I don’t get the complaints. The additional content is optional. They update the base engine for the train sim every year for free to people that already bought the base game.
Okay, but making addon aircraft and scenery and selling it isn't a microtransaction. FS has had payware addons since it basically started - many developed and released by Microsoft and BAO (the original programmers of FS for Microsoft) directly. Dovetail already develop and sell through Steam for FSX:SE, as do many 3rd party developers, including A2A. Again, not microtransactions. Those addons are ACTUAL DLC, as it was meant to be - it adds to the gameplay and changes the program. A microtransaction is a perk or skin that doesn't change the base game.

Also, before we get too far with the BS about Dovetail wanting "official" addons to go through them and Steam - 1) the devs can still sell through their website and I'm sure many will still buy through the dev's websites. Anyone saying otherwise is a fool. 2) 30% publishing fees is NOTHING. Robert is trying to scare people when he talks about how much Steam takes. Flight1 at one point took 51% of the sales (don't know if it's true now). I know a couple of publishers who tried to take 75% of the revenue in the past (they didn't last long). The whole deal with how much the publisher takes is only a concern for developers who can self publish their addons, but even then, their storefronts take a cut (usually around 10%) to host the services, PLUS there is the processing fees for the transactions by the credit card companies and other pay services which is usually about 1% of the transaction as well.
Image

Still Learning
Senior Airman
Posts: 201
Joined: 01 Aug 2015

Re: Flight Sim World

Post Still Learning »

rcoultas wrote:
wblackret wrote:Hats off to all who commented. Guess I really didn't think about it in that respect. You're right! Guess I'll be spending that $200.00 (or more) anyway. What the hell, it's only money! The kids don't really need shoes, I can super glue the wife's dentures and Alpo is cheaper than regular ground meat. The graphics will make it all worthwhile.
Now you're talking mate! Spoken like a true flight simmer. Go forward and don't look back.

And Alpo doesn't taste so bad when you get used to it.
That reminds me of a story from years ago. My Dad went into a market, to buy Alpo for his German Sheppard. When he was in line waiting to pay for it, the lady behind him said "That's good." My Dad's interpretation had always been that she had eaten it before, and was letting him know, (that it was good.)

Still Learning
As of 8/14/17 | NZXT S340 Elite | AORUS Gaming 7 Z270 | i7 7770K @4.8 GhZ | EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11 GB | 16GB DDR 4 RAM @ 2666 MhZ | Samsung EVO 850 SSD 1TB

User avatar
pressler
Senior Airman
Posts: 152
Joined: 08 Jul 2015

Re: Flight Sim World

Post pressler »

Is DTG the "Apple" of flight simming now? Steam = App Store - Appears their business model is very similar..not saying it's a bad thing, just different than the way it's been since the beginning of time. Us old coots are set in our ways and be danged if someone moves our cheese. I'll have to give them a fair shake tho, because DTG extended the life of FSX, and for that reason alone seems fair to me. It's always a difficult proposition to change no matter what it is.

User avatar
CAPFlyer
A2A Aviation Consultant
Posts: 2219
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA

Re: Flight Sim World

Post CAPFlyer »

pressler wrote:Is DTG the "Apple" of flight simming now? Steam = App Store - Appears their business model is very similar..not saying it's a bad thing, just different than the way it's been since the beginning of time. Us old coots are set in our ways and be danged if someone moves our cheese. I'll have to give them a fair shake tho, because DTG extended the life of FSX, and for that reason alone seems fair to me. It's always a difficult proposition to change no matter what it is.
I don't think so. First, Steam isn't DTG's thing, it's Valve's. Second, I still don't believe the rumors created from half-read statements and assumptions by people who have no special insight. Until DTG makes an official statement to clarify the distribution scheme, I have a hard time believing they'd make the same mistake Microsoft made with Flight!
Image

User avatar
scottb613
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 511
Joined: 28 Dec 2015
Location: KMSV

Flight Sim World

Post scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

As someone who has split time between both Flight Sim and Train Sim and familiar with DTG's roots - I don't have much enthusiasm for DTG - they're known for making pretty things without much substance... I'm always amazed at how quickly and easily some new shiny object draws the attention of the masses - I've seen people already mention "I'm buying a new machine to run FSW" - for a product that hasn't seen the light of day - seriously ? Personally I'm still amazed every time I fire up P3D - have high hopes for its future - and really have no intention of switching unless I'm completely wrong and FSW turns out to be some miraculous game changer - but I guess I'm just a skeptic at heart...

Regards,
Scott


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

DrumsArt
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 259
Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Location: France

Re: Flight Sim World

Post DrumsArt »

Currently, my Fsx/Acc works perfectly with excellent addon as PMDG, (all) A2A aircrafts, some Milviz, Realair, FsLabs (Concorde, A320), Flightsimware, Aerosoft, Fsuipc, TacPack, ActiveSky, 3 different ATC programs that I use depending on mood and/or type of flight., MCE, Gsx, ORBX Global, Vector, OLC, multiple airports, all regions ORBX...

64bits ? Sure (FsLab A320, PMDG) but especially with P3D V4 in which I have more confidence...until proven otherwise...Clearly !

In addition to all this, if I give a chance to another simu, it will be Aerofly because imo radically different in terms of graphics...

Regards,
Richard Portier
MAXIMUS VI FORMULA|Intel i7-4770K [email protected] x8|NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080ti|M16GB|Windows10 Pro 64|Fsx Accel|P3Dv4.5HF2|Rex|Saitek Pro Flight Yoke/Rudder/Quadrant/Switch Panel|ThrustMaster Hotas Warthog|ActiveSky P3Dv4+Asca|Mce|All A2A

User avatar
CAPFlyer
A2A Aviation Consultant
Posts: 2219
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA

Re: Flight Sim World

Post CAPFlyer »

DrumsArt wrote:64bits ? Sure (FsLab A320, PMDG) but especially with P3D V4 in which I have more confidence...until proven otherwise...Clearly !
This right here is what has me confused. There is even more vaporware rumor in this statement than in FSW but yet so many people are convinced that P3D V4 is coming, that it'll be 64-bit, all new graphics engine, all new this, all new that, and yet there hasn't been a SINGLE announcement from Lockheed that v4 actually exists beyond a plan right now. In fact, I've seen at least 2 articles where Lockheed specifically says they've not confirmed ANYTHING for the next version of P3D yet, so why is it that everyone is so confident that a program with 1/10 the sales of XPlane and FSX is a "for sure" thing?

Guys, slow your roll, wait for more information, then make an informed decision. DTG is hosting a stream today at 1800BST/1300EDT showing off more of FSW and answering questions. I suspect a lot of the open questions about the game will be answered then and we can have more substantial discussions instead of making "factual" statements about rumors.

https://www.twitch.tv/dovetailgames
Image

User avatar
Medtner
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1266
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Location: Arendal, Norway
Contact:

Re: Flight Sim World

Post Medtner »

scottb613 wrote:Hi Folks,

As someone who has split time between both Flight Sim and Train Sim and familiar with DTG's roots - I don't have much enthusiasm for DTG - they're known for making pretty things without much substance... I'm always amazed at how quickly and easily some new shiny object draws the attention of the masses - I've seen people already mention "I'm buying a new machine to run FSW" - for a product that hasn't seen the light of day - seriously ? Personally I'm still amazed every time I fire up P3D - have high hopes for its future - and really have no intention of switching unless I'm completely wrong and FSW turns out to be some miraculous game changer - but I guess I'm just a skeptic at heart...

Regards,
Scott


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This.

And also, what have people seen in FSW that makes them want to jump ship? Have they actually seen what P3D can do, and does with incredible stability and beauty (granted, one has to have a powerful machine)?

One thing that seems to make people go "wow!" is the raindrops on the windshield. I'd love to have that too, but it isn't revolutionary. Nor is indicative of deep and proper simulation.
I, for one, am extremely curious to see whether FSW has the same monstrously stupid propeller RPM / manifold pressure problem that FSX and also P3D has. Any new simulator should have had this fixed. P3D and FSX has the fortune of being blessed with the A2A Accusim-planes which correct this and maaany other things.

The only hope I have is that whenever P3D goes 64-bit and moves on as a serious simulation, A2A will follow. I'm not into this for the gaming, I'm doing it for the simming. Not that either is the better one, but the sim needs to be serious and complex.
Erik Haugan Aasland,

Arendal, Norway
(Homebase: Kristiansand Lufthavn, Kjevik (ENCN)

All the Accusim-planes are in my hangar, but they aren't sitting long enough for their engines to cool much before next flight!

DrumsArt
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 259
Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Location: France

Re: Flight Sim World

Post DrumsArt »

CAPFlyer wrote:
DrumsArt wrote:64bits ? Sure (FsLab A320, PMDG) but especially with P3D V4 in which I have more confidence...until proven otherwise...Clearly !
This right here is what has me confused. There is even more vaporware rumor in this statement than in FSW but yet so many people are convinced that P3D V4 is coming, that it'll be 64-bit, all new graphics engine, all new this, all new that, and yet there hasn't been a SINGLE announcement from Lockheed that v4 actually exists beyond a plan right now. In fact, I've seen at least 2 articles where Lockheed specifically says they've not confirmed ANYTHING for the next version of P3D yet, so why is it that everyone is so confident that a program with 1/10 the sales of XPlane and FSX is a "for sure" thing?

Guys, slow your roll, wait for more information, then make an informed decision. DTG is hosting a stream today at 1800BST/1300EDT showing off more of FSW and answering questions. I suspect a lot of the open questions about the game will be answered then and we can have more substantial discussions instead of making "factual" statements about rumors.

https://www.twitch.tv/dovetailgames
Ok, well received, you'r right :) ... I'll just make a correction to what I wrote...

64bits ? Sure (FsLab A320, PMDG) but especially if P3D in which I have more confidence, makes a 64bits V4 version...until proven otherwise...Clearly !
For the rest, I do not change a comma :P .
Regards,
Richard Portier
MAXIMUS VI FORMULA|Intel i7-4770K [email protected] x8|NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080ti|M16GB|Windows10 Pro 64|Fsx Accel|P3Dv4.5HF2|Rex|Saitek Pro Flight Yoke/Rudder/Quadrant/Switch Panel|ThrustMaster Hotas Warthog|ActiveSky P3Dv4+Asca|Mce|All A2A

User avatar
Rimshot
Senior Airman
Posts: 160
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Location: Groningen, The Netherlands

Re: Flight Sim World

Post Rimshot »

Medtner wrote:The only hope I have is that whenever P3D goes 64-bit and moves on as a serious simulation, A2A will follow. I'm not into this for the gaming, I'm doing it for the simming. Not that either is the better one, but the sim needs to be serious and complex.
I want my sim to be complex too. But the complexity has always come from the addon developers, not the base platform. In that sense Dovetail's FSW can be complex as well.
Cheers,
Bert

Intel i4790K, 8 GB RAM, MSI GTX 970, Windows 10 Home 64 bit

youngjohn
Airman
Posts: 33
Joined: 31 Dec 2014

Re: Flight Sim World

Post youngjohn »

Rain drops showing on the canopy glass is able to be displayed in FSX Gold! I have purchased Ant's Tecnam Sierra & that has rain drops showing on the canopy. That would assume that it is not the platform, but the developers, that are not programming their software to display such 'eye candy'.

stiz
BDG
Posts: 697
Joined: 04 Sep 2005

Re: Flight Sim World

Post stiz »

youngjohn wrote:Rain drops showing on the canopy glass is able to be displayed in FSX Gold! I have purchased Ant's Tecnam Sierra & that has rain drops showing on the canopy. That would assume that it is not the platform, but the developers, that are not programming their software to display such 'eye candy'.
it could be because its a pain in the butt to do and takes away an awful lot of the code limit that the SDK allows you to use and reduces performance of the aeroplane* :wink:


* = depending on how system complex the aeroplane is, a default level systems piper cub would take less of a hit than the accusim piper cub with all its custom codeing and "behind the scenes" work

new reply

Return to “Pilot's Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Moose214 and 11 guests