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 Post subject: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Staff Sergeant

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 7:32 pm
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No, not in Flight Simulator, lol, in real-life. Amazing, amazing, amazing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvVlH0eXIV8[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:10 am 
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Senior Master Sergeant

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Hi.
I saw this on CXA forum , very impressive , had to try this in FSX using the CS C130J 100 , its doable with the CS C130j , but does not seem to have the same power as the real aircraft.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... O2Y_C4Hfli

regards alan. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:16 am 
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A video showing entire display was posted by Cliff here. :)

-Esa


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:46 am 
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Need to fix the title - "Not Looping a C-130" I really wish these stolen videos would go away. I still haven't located the original uploader, because this video needs to be removed or edited to clearly state that he used high zoom to make it look like it looped, because it didn't. They flew 2 chandelles, standard, not inverted, maneuvers done by every pilot wanting to get his Commercial Certificate.

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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:18 pm 
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I suggest you bother to actually look around CAP,it may not have "technically" been a loop in the strictest sense as they pulled to one side afterwards, but it DID go over the top inverted and there's loads of videos and photos showing it. Saying they didn't is just insulting the pilots and the planes performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:34 pm 
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CAPFlyer wrote:
Need to fix the title - "Not Looping a C-130" I really wish these stolen videos would go away. I still haven't located the original uploader, because this video needs to be removed or edited to clearly state that he used high zoom to make it look like it looped, because it didn't. They flew 2 chandelles, standard, not inverted, maneuvers done by every pilot wanting to get his Commercial Certificate.



Sorry, they looped it. The display also included a quarter plane loop (actually a steep wing over) and an unloaded descending hard turn as well as several steep turns.
Nothing spectacular really. All done well and well within structural limits.
I will add I am NOT a huge fan of looping these big boys. It is impressive of course but doing it can easily end up right on the edge of the g range.
Dudley Henriques


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Maybe you missed the relevant portion of the vid Chris? But this is definitely one inverted commercial freighter! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:18 am 
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Location: Powder Springs, Georgia USA
Let's get the record straight, not only are these Youtube videos not stolen: but Lockheed Martin is not in the habit of allowing or authorizing the release of these kinds of videos to Aviation International, YouTube or anyone else unless they are real. If you notice, most all of these videos start with the official Lockheed Martin introduction. Hundreds of hours and many years of practice go into doing an Airshow Demo like the one performed by LM Chief Test Pilot Wayne Roberts with the LM-100J at Farnborough. And yes Wayne Roberts performed a "Loop" which can be seen in the next to last video. At approximately 2:35 - 2:40 into the video you can clearly see the enter into the loop, over the top on it's back, and the exit from the loop. You'd have to be blind to miss it!

LM-100J First Flight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpxdGC5BH38

LM-100J Certification
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cct99Ry0qt0

Lockheed Martin LM-100J Training Center
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxx84HV7qzI

Wayne Roberts practices LM-100J Airshow Maneuvers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO00aICGv4w
https://www.govconwire.com/2018/07/vide ... irst-look/

Wayne Roberts Loops the LM-100J at the Farnborough Airshow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwM-nBKVaI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTuL2-ND-68

The only Air Maneuvers required for a Commercial Pilot Certification can be found in FAA-S-ACS-7A - Commercial Pilot - Airplane Airman Certification Standards, page 34, Performance and Ground Reference Maneuvers: A. Steep Turns, B, Steep Spiral (ASEL, ASES), C. Chandelles (ASEL, ASES), D. Lazy Eights (ASEL, ASES), and E. Eights on Pylons (ASEL, ASES). These are all "Standard Maneuvers" and not "Aerobatic Maneuvers". To try and compare the required Commercial Pilot maneuvers to what Wayne Roberts was performing in the LM-100J is pure fantasy!

Keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down!

Ret SMSgt Cliff Lord - C-130 Flight Engineer & Mechanic :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:24 am 
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A2A Aviation Consultant
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Sorry, I still don't think it's a loop. None of the "reputable" sources say it's a loop, and of all the views of what is claimed to be a "loop" there is no horizon reference visible. The "loop" at 2:08 looks like another Chandelle. The other video I've linked from further down the flightline, shows it as a chandelle. No one in the media, AIN, FlightGlobal, etc. have reported it as a loop. Looping something like a C-130 would be notable and would be reported on by the press. They haven't done it. None of the previous demonstrations have included a loop, not even in the C-130J demo that was so spectacular several years ago at this same event where Lockheed even released in-cockpit video of the practice flight (as linked above).

Sorry, I don't think it's a loop.

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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:54 am 
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I am not sure what I am missing but I wonder how it would be that hard to believe they looped the thing, instead of flying something seriously close to a loop in what comes to the extreme angles met during the maneuver? I mean, yeah, as pointed out by DH, it probably is rather risky if executed poorly, and you need to do the math beforehand, but loop is hardly too extreme a maneuver in that sense, and per specs, C-130 certainly is capable of one.

-Esa


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:36 pm 
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It's hard because literally no one beyond amateurs has reported it as a loop. Doing a loop in something that big - even a barrel roll for that fact, is a huge deal. If it was really done, it'd be all over the media, yet none of the professionals have made a peep about it.

Here's the other end - with the way that the certification and enforcement agencies are today, reporting an airplane not certified for aerobatics doing aerobatics can (and has) resulted in pilots having their certificates suspended and full investigations launched into those activities, costing them their day jobs on several occasions, including a certain L-39 instructor that comes to mind, who only just last year got his license back after an FAA inspector decided to "flex his muscles". Even though this person had filed all the required paperwork and followed the proposed plan to the letter, the inspector still grounded him and it took over 2 years to get it overturned at which time the FAA was forced to apologize for the whole thing (can't remember if he got any damages or not off hand, but it was a pretty huge win for him anyway).

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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:58 pm 
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CAPFlyer wrote:
It's hard because literally no one beyond amateurs has reported it as a loop. Doing a loop in something that big - even a barrel roll for that fact, is a huge deal. If it was really done, it'd be all over the media, yet none of the professionals have made a peep about it.
I don't quite follow, though I never was too much into media anyways. Yet I'd figure it was an uninteresting airplane by default (without afterburners, that is) doing something somewhat cool on the background. I of course find the display fairly cool indeed, but I'd figure that's just the nerd in me - the engineer in me tells that nothing particularly groundbreaking is seen here. I can't quite construct the media case.

I don't know whether the aircraft, apparently a sort of test subject, is actually a certifying prototype or an experimental by classification.

-Esa


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:21 pm 
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The display is very cool, no doubt about it. It's an excellent show of energy management in a large airplane. It's just the loop part that has me doubting. Like I said, the professional media was all over this and every other display (i.e. guys who live and breath aviation and actually know what they're talking about) and not one of them has said anything about Lockheed's Test Pilot looping the LM-100J. They were all practically dropping their jaws when they saw the C-130J, 737MAX, and 787 demos for the first time and impressed when they saw the A350 demo that nearly replicated the 787 demo move for move, but there's been little talk about the LM-100J demo beyond that it happened. For them to not be rushing to publish that a turboprop transport did a loop is telling to me, especially in this era of needing clicks and sensation.

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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:19 pm 
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I'll go with Dudley on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Looping a C-130
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:44 pm 
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A2A Chief Pilot
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CAPFlyer wrote:
The display is very cool, no doubt about it. It's an excellent show of energy management in a large airplane. It's just the loop part that has me doubting. Like I said, the professional media was all over this and every other display (i.e. guys who live and breath aviation and actually know what they're talking about) and not one of them has said anything about Lockheed's Test Pilot looping the LM-100J. They were all practically dropping their jaws when they saw the C-130J, 737MAX, and 787 demos for the first time and impressed when they saw the A350 demo that nearly replicated the 787 demo move for move, but there's been little talk about the LM-100J demo beyond that it happened. For them to not be rushing to publish that a turboprop transport did a loop is telling to me, especially in this era of needing clicks and sensation.


As far as our sources know, they did loop the 130 at Farnborough. I wasn't there of course but the film (unless a masterpiece of disguise work :-) absolutely shows a loop.
Dudley Henriques


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