The A2A Simulations Community

"Come share your passion for flight"
It is currently Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:43 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:36 pm 
Offline
Technical Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 637
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
lonewulf47 wrote:
OTOH it must also be said that FSUIPC is not only dealing with controller axes, but also with many other aspects. I for my part use FSUIPC for many, many years to control any kind of pusbuttons with the help of the ingenious LINDA module. That way I do not need any fancy software drivers as long as the controller is of a common HID type (which e.g. most of the SAITEK controllers are). So the combination of axes controlled by FSX/P3D and pushbuttons controlled by LINDA/FSUIPC is - at least for me for the last years - an unbeatable combo :D It's like in other aspects of life: Everyone has his preferences !


I will have to back Lonewulf47 in full on this. I have been using FSUIPC with LINDA for several years and cannot imagine simming without it. FSUIPC is excellent for assigning individual axis depending on aircraft and tweaking those sensitivities per aircraft characteristics. Custom button controls inside FSUIPC are almost limitless but can be difficult to set up for the faint of heart. LINDA fills this gap... and then some. Being able to create your own commands to send to the game, compound commands, and make them toggle/switch/delay/etc in any conceptual combination makes limited buttons work for you in ways that you cannot believe. Then add three button states to that and you triple the buttons available to you. The configurator that A2A has put together for us is really great but is pretty limited to what the FSUIPC and LINDA combination can do for you. And let's not get started on writing .lua files to do tasks for you :shock:

Thanks for this thread and the info you've brought to our attention Scott.

Cheers Roger

_________________
-- Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! !

Z390 FTW | i9 9900K @ 5.2 | G.Skill 16GB 3200 CL14 | 1080 Ti FTW3
970 Pro 512GB (OS)| 970 Evo 1TB | 850 500GBx2 Raid0
3TB HDD | Define S2 | EKWB Dual Loop


P51civ - T6 - P40 - B17 - B377 - L049 - Comanche 250 - Spit


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:23 am 
Offline
A2A Captain
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 8330
Location: United Kingdom
Something I discovered very recently is that backing-off sensitivity from the full right position by just 1 unit (i.e. so it's 126 rather than 127) eliminates a slight visual 'fluttering' or 'jumping' of the control surfaces on the 3D model that I found rather irritating. This is perhaps related to rather crummy pots on my joystick, but though it worth a mention. No notable drawback in terms of handling, and my null zone is set at 2. Incidentally, increasing the null zone whilst leaving sensitivity on 127 didn't seem to help much with the 'fluttering'.

Nick


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:19 pm 
Offline
A2A General
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:55 pm
Posts: 15427
Location: USA
Nick,

I think that is an interesting observation. Just one notch acts like a filter, and perhaps, this should be the recommended setting.

Scott.

_________________
A2A Simulations Inc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:08 pm 
Offline
Senior Airman

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:01 pm
Posts: 151
Just wanted to add a few thoughts...

1. FSUIPC is absolutely e-ssential to serious simming in FSX/P3D2/Steam.

2. The FSX Sensitivity setting is a misnomer, as it is not sensitivity at all but a moving average filter of varying length (time). It should be called "smoothing" instead. A true sensistivity setting is a multiplier number (scalar) that only affects the ratio of degrees of movement of the control surface vs. degrees of movement of the control input, with the timing of the movement not affected at all.

3. When the mis-called sensitivity is low WRT elevator input, the timing delay leads to PIO-Pilot Induced Oscillations, notably on flare when elevator control is crucial. In the real world, Scott Crossfield PIO'd on landing the X-15 the first time because the elevon hydraulic actuator could only actuate the elevons at 25º/Sec. The elevon rate was increased to 35º/Sec and the PIOs were gone.

See: http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/adventur ... ght_1.html

4. Perhaps many simmers are unaware, if aerodynamics depend *only* on the current shape of the aircraft model (Blade Element Theory, invented in 1878!), there is no mismatch at all between the visual and the computed control surface positions, as they are one and the same by definition. Perhaps some future incarnation of FSX/P3D/Steam might incorporate BET aerodynamics?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_element_theory



Cheers,

- jahman.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:27 am 
Offline
Master Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 1078
Location: EGBO
Just a question, why do people keep saying FSUIPC and or LINDA etc are essential for simming?
I don't personally use any of them (only the free version of FSUIPC to prevent CTD's) when I got my PC and Saitek controllers, I just plugged it all in and it still works fine to this day, I didn't install any drivers that people speak of.....you just plug em in and it works!
I've tried my mates setup and he uses FSUIPC with Saitek gear, and I felt no difference at all, its exactly the same as mine.

Cheers,
John.

_________________
Cub. Cherokee. C182. Comanche 250. Spitfire. T-6. B-17. B377. Connie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:21 am 
Offline
A2A Lieutenant Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:22 pm
Posts: 28882
Location: Beccles, Suffolk, UK
Agreed John, been simming all my life and never used FSUIPC as I only have the basics, yoke, pedals and throttles.

I think its similar to the beauty worlds 'essential oils' creams and face scrubs etc. I've been alive 31 years, never used them and to my knowledge this I am experiencing is still me being alive. So I question the essential part :twisted: :wink:

cheers,
Lewis

_________________
A2A Facebook for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Youtube because a video can say a thousand screenshots,..
A2A Simulations Twitter for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Simulations Community Discord for voice/text chat


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:39 am 
Offline
Master Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 1078
Location: EGBO
LOL Lewis :D same here bud, but I'm 39 (and actually scared of becoming 40 lol)
I can understand why people use it I guess, if they like the ability to set up all kinds of buttons/switches etc.
I have the Saitek Proflight Yoke and Rudder pedals and Quadrant, and apart from brakes and flaps assigned to the yoke, most of the other buttons I use for views, obviously the Hat Switch to look around (or mouse look while in the cruise) and I have another yoke slider switch I use to zoom in and out.

On the Throttle Quadrant I have a button assigned as the gear up/down, another to move the eye point up/down and the other to enable/disable 'Mouse look'
Left throttle axis is the throttle or power lever, Middle one is Prop, and the right one I use as Trim.

I like to use the mouse to control a lot of stuff in the VC as it feels like your actually reaching for switches etc.

John.

_________________
Cub. Cherokee. C182. Comanche 250. Spitfire. T-6. B-17. B377. Connie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:42 am 
Online
Chief Master Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:30 pm
Posts: 3531
Location: Typically hanging around N07, 12N, KLDJ, KCDW
I also do not use FSUIPC, I thought that you can do all these mappings using the built in FSX interface.

_________________
Flight Simmer since 1983. Private Pilot
Paramus Flying Club http://www.flyingclub.org


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:15 am 
Offline
Technical Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 637
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
Well to each his own. I'm not saying you can't fly without either of these programs. I just can't imagine myself without them.

As far as using the mouse for everything in the cockpit I think of it like this. When I drive to town in my car and it starts to rain I just reach down and twist the wiper control. When it's time to shift the car I just reach down and grab the lever and shift. I don't have to LOOK at anything. Using the mouse (especially in rough weather) would be like using a 3 foot stick in my car to run the controls. I would have to take my eyes off the road and focus all my attention to get the stick to touch the switch just right so I could change it's position. This does not seem realistic at all and gets very frustrating to me.

The final fact is, there are all these programs out there made by some pretty smart people. The programs work for some and not for others. I'm thankful to those that share their programs with us (especially the free ones :lol: ) to try out. If we like them we use them. If not we remove them.

Bottom line is to enjoy simming in whatever way works for you.

_________________
-- Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! !

Z390 FTW | i9 9900K @ 5.2 | G.Skill 16GB 3200 CL14 | 1080 Ti FTW3
970 Pro 512GB (OS)| 970 Evo 1TB | 850 500GBx2 Raid0
3TB HDD | Define S2 | EKWB Dual Loop


P51civ - T6 - P40 - B17 - B377 - L049 - Comanche 250 - Spit


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:02 am 
Offline
Airman Basic

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:14 pm
Posts: 7
Thank you so much for this, Ive been flight simming for many years and this is the first time I've seen it explained. I had altered the aircraft.cfg file on the A2A C182 as the only way to make it controllable for landing, as I'd considered that the 'sensitivity' of the ailerons was way too high and tried sliding the FSX Sensitivity sliders to the left (been flying heavier aircraft so was probably unused to light aircraft controls!) and just making matters worse! Sliders back to full right and .cfg file altered back to how it came(!) and all seems great :-)

Cheers
Jon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:01 pm 
Offline
Airman

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:58 am
Posts: 19
Location: United Kingdom
I followed the saitek installation guide for my X52 pro hotas, my saitek cessna yoke and my saitek pro rudder pedals and I set the sensitivities as they suggested some years ago.
Fsuipc comes in when you go beyond the normal setup like I have with extra throttle levers and mixture sliders and three different saitek panels.
I simply couldn't get fsx to run them all on all of my many add on aircraft but with Fsuipc and Lindale everything works.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:06 pm 
Offline
Airman

Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:43 pm
Posts: 17
Location: YMND
gday ...

i am a keyboard flyer

the keyboard sensitivities video is instructive in different ways for me
most of us are not going to make full deflection control inputs like this
it's like ramming the throttle forward from ready to takeoff
i understand the linkage, the connection which the video shows
but for me, the 'delay' is trying to simulate the smooth control inputs and
no OVER-control that we use for normal flying

at some stage most students will be told 'take you hands off the controls'
and the response is always huge concern followed by increasing relaxation as
the exercise in trimming and understanding that it is the aircraft which is flying
is repeated throughout training.

with sensitivities at 100% control of the aircraft is difficult on takeoff and climb
because of over control.
with sensitivities of ailerons=80 and elevators=75 for example, takeoff and climb
can be flown much more smoothly and the aircraft can be controlled and trimmed
for the climb and flown hands off
similarly for landing the aircraft. without the over control which 100% sensitivities create
we are better able to set up for a good landing.

of course, we must fly the aircraft, as described in Just a word or two on flying an Accusim airplane
http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=43086
that's why we have the Accu-sim aircraft.

regards
joe


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:09 am 
Offline
A2A Lieutenant Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:22 pm
Posts: 28882
Location: Beccles, Suffolk, UK
Joe I would strongly suggest getting even a cheap $20 stick, flying with a keyboard is harder by quite a bit than flying a real aircraft and so you tend to be not really simulating much if limits with a keyboard as it's no basis in reality, esp if having to use control delay to fake correct control inputs.

Saitek for exams produce a range of budget sticks that are pretty slick and include features like throttles and twist grip rudders too. Well worth looking into.

Thanks,
Lewis


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
A2A Facebook for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Youtube because a video can say a thousand screenshots,..
A2A Simulations Twitter for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Simulations Community Discord for voice/text chat


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:38 am 
Offline
Master Sergeant

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:33 am
Posts: 1035
Location: Germany
I'm flying FSX for almost a decade now, and as far as controls go I never had any need for FSUIPC whatsoever. It would just be an overcomplication with no benefit for me. Just yet another thing to worry about, to configure and to keep track off that I rather not bother with. Everything works just fine the way it is, and there is no need to change that. Nothing essential about it.

Having said that: I do have the free version of FSUIPC installed, but just for the prevention of some crashes with orbx sceneries that was implemented a while ago. Not sure it that's even necessary at this point.

_________________
Happy Landings
- Patrick
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:59 pm 
Offline
Airman

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:09 am
Posts: 39
jahman wrote:
Just wanted to add a few thoughts...

1. FSUIPC is absolutely e-ssential to serious simming in FSX/P3D2/Steam.

2. The FSX Sensitivity setting is a misnomer, as it is not sensitivity at all but a moving average filter of varying length (time). It should be called "smoothing" instead. A true sensistivity setting is a multiplier number (scalar) that only affects the ratio of degrees of movement of the control surface vs. degrees of movement of the control input, with the timing of the movement not affected at all.

3. When the mis-called sensitivity is low WRT elevator input, the timing delay leads to PIO-Pilot Induced Oscillations, notably on flare when elevator control is crucial. In the real world, Scott Crossfield PIO'd on landing the X-15 the first time because the elevon hydraulic actuator could only actuate the elevons at 25º/Sec. The elevon rate was increased to 35º/Sec and the PIOs were gone.

See: http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/adventur ... ght_1.html

4. Perhaps many simmers are unaware, if aerodynamics depend *only* on the current shape of the aircraft model (Blade Element Theory, invented in 1878!), there is no mismatch at all between the visual and the computed control surface positions, as they are one and the same by definition. Perhaps some future incarnation of FSX/P3D/Steam might incorporate BET aerodynamics?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_element_theory



Cheers,

- jahman.

1. FSUIPC is not essential for serious simming in FSX or P3D. It's useful but not essential. I only use the unregistered version. A2A never said don't use FSUIPC, so it's a moot point anyway.

2 and 3 Are just a repeat of Scott's comments in the first post.

4. Making the flight model respond to external model geometry changes makes no improvement on the flight simulation. It actually makes it harder for the flight model designer to get the exact response they want. You may be surprised to learn that FSX, with its lookup table aerodynamics, is far closer to the way full motion simulator flight models are designed than X-Plane is.

Kevin


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BrianW, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group