A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

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Molly - A2A
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by Molly - A2A »

robnewman wrote:Ok... Let me start by saying that I am more than happy to pay for separate license for FSX and P3D.

However, I just want someone to review my logic here regarding the rebate for existing 172 owners... Of which I am one.

Point one: I already have a FSX license after I purchased the 172 initially.

Point two: Once the core update is released, I will need to purchase the additional P3D should I wish to use the 172 in P3D.

Point three: I will receive a $30 rebate on the additional license for a limited time.

So here is my question... The rebate applies to the individual P3D only licenses, correct?

A previous poster made mention that the rebate was for the bundle deal, but should I buy the 172 bundle, this would still total more than $69.99 and I would then have 2 FSX licenses, correct?

Just want to be sure I fully understand the situation...
Reading over Scott's original post, I think I misread what he stated. I think he was saying that the $30 rebate you get when you buy the new combo license ($70 as opposed to $100) will apply to existing customers buying the P3D license, so that would be $49.99 for the P3D license minus $29.99 rebate for $19.99 for a P3D license. Good for 30 days after core update releases.

But in any case, ignore anything I say until Scott or Lewis say it officially. ;)

Mike62
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by Mike62 »

Rob, I think the rebate only applies to the separate P3D Academic License. Subtract $30 from the $49.99 price and you would end up with the same $69.99 combination license price but would only be adding the additional P3D academic License.

Mike

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Scott - A2A
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by Scott - A2A »

Rob,

Correct. We're offering $30 off to FSX customers who also wish to purchase P3D simply because it makes sense. Bundles are a fact of commerce, and we've always offered them in some form for most of our products. If our store offered the ability to automatically discount existing owners we would have put the rebate in permanently. But we have to handle these rebates manually, so we put the 30 day limit.

Also, we are in no way pushing people to P3D as FSX is very strong and still showing little or no signs of slowing down. This is because it's widely available and it's a fixed, but open platform. We are 100% in support of FSX it and see no end in sight. We are also very happy Lockheed Martin has taken FSX to the commercial level, as this has helped bring the entire simulation world right up to professional commercial training.

Scott.
A2A Simulations Inc.

EnDSchultz
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by EnDSchultz »

taildraggin68 wrote:As is my understanding, it is P3D that is the culprit, having many different fees for amounts of licenses being purchased(used). The bottom price being academic and going up dramatically from there. The fee that is shown above is the same for the FSX and P3D if bought separately but a savings if bought as a bundle. Milviz also uses separate pricing for bundle packages that will work in both platforms. The main rub being that P3D has the disclaimer on their site saying not for personal computer entertainment. In our world of legaleeze crud, that means they can charge more because it is Professional vs entertainment. A2A is in line with their pricing as going by the prices listed from P3D. I will gladly pay $50 for a great product and a little more if I used both systems but I have seen little justification to move to P3D especially with the implications of their disclaimer that their product is too professional for me to use on my home computer and have to pay to use simulators at a flight school to get professional results.(ok off my soapbox now) :D
The whole P3D licensing situation is a bit of a fiasco. Here's kind of how I see it:

They're using and building on the FSX engine, but don't actually own the game or the name, and as an aerospace company they have no interest in officially entering into the "video game" industry. So for the lawyers, they market and license it as a professional training device, and strictly NOT for entertainment under any circumstances. Meanwhile, they're practically BEGGING for the casual, desktop flightsimmer to come in and buy their product by advertising third party scenery addons, control devices, etc. with giant banners on their homepage. Not to mention the direction they're going with development: why would a training device need volumetric fog? Cloud shadows? HDR?

When pressed, they never seem able to answer what you can and can't do with a given license, because the language is so vague anyway. I'm a certificated Private Pilot, soon to be attending college for a piloting degree. So I bought the P3D academic license. Is it acceptable for me to practice IMC navigation in my Cessna, but a breach of contract to screw around and do some barrel rolls in the P-51? What if I happen to be entertaining myself in the process of learning how to navigate IMC? What kind of a pilot would I be if I weren't having fun doing what I do? How can they even think to regulate or enforce a rule like this?

I know of at least one YouTube flightsim personality who has been given a copy of P3D by Lockheed Martin to try, even though, to my knowledge, they are not a pilot nor training to be one. They happen to use the sim in a realistic manner 99% of the time, but they are certainly not using it as a training device. How is this not "consumer entertainment"? Bottom line, it seems to me Lockheed Martin wants the general consumer to buy their simulator for entertainment, they just can't say it out loud.

I love P3D. I'm thankful to Lockheed Martin for continuing to develop the FSX engine. I respect the licensing and understand why they have to do it this way, but that doesn't stop me from noting that some of it is rather absurd.

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taildraggin68
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by taildraggin68 »

@EnDSchultz

Amen to that. Anytime that I am practicing on my computer, even if not loggable, is time well spent. Just because I want to try the flying farmer routines in the J-3, I should not be made to feel as if I were violating some "rule" or another. I guess the legal double speak is what turns me off of P3D and maybe at some point I will venture into that arena. For now though FSX is it and A2A has made it as close to the real thing as possible not only for the pleasure of flying and training, but for the fact that I really feel the need to check my teeth for bugs after flying the J-3. :D

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DHenriques_
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by DHenriques_ »

taildraggin68 wrote:@EnDSchultz

Amen to that. Anytime that I am practicing on my computer, even if not loggable, is time well spent. Just because I want to try the flying farmer routines in the J-3, I should not be made to feel as if I were violating some "rule" or another. I guess the legal double speak is what turns me off of P3D and maybe at some point I will venture into that arena. For now though FSX is it and A2A has made it as close to the real thing as possible not only for the pleasure of flying and training, but for the fact that I really feel the need to check my teeth for bugs after flying the J-3. :D
One of the best comedy pilots who ever lived was a good friend (Dick Schram...The Flying Professor). I've flown this routine myself several times in J3's, Citabrias, and even once in a Decathlon. Today we have some very good pilots , Greg Koontz, and Kyle Franklin as well as others carrying on the tradition.
These routines might look easy from the ground but actually require some of the most critical and demanding technique on the circuit. It requires a LOT of cross control work operating very deeply into the left corner of the flight envelope.
Have fun learning the routines. The flight model on the A2A J3 Cub is very close to the real thing and about as good as it gets if learning to fly these comedy routines in FSX is a goal.
Good luck,
Dudley Henriques

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taildraggin68
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by taildraggin68 »

D. Henriques - A2A wrote:
taildraggin68 wrote:@EnDSchultz

Amen to that. Anytime that I am practicing on my computer, even if not loggable, is time well spent. Just because I want to try the flying farmer routines in the J-3, I should not be made to feel as if I were violating some "rule" or another. I guess the legal double speak is what turns me off of P3D and maybe at some point I will venture into that arena. For now though FSX is it and A2A has made it as close to the real thing as possible not only for the pleasure of flying and training, but for the fact that I really feel the need to check my teeth for bugs after flying the J-3. :D
One of the best comedy pilots who ever lived was a good friend (Dick Schram...The Flying Professor. I've flown this routine myself several times in J3's, Citabrias, and even once in a Decathlon. Today we have some very good pilots , Greg Koontz, and Kyle Franklin as well as others carrying on the tradition.
These routines might look easy from the ground but actually require some of the most critical and demanding technique on the circuit. It requires a LOT of cross control work operating very deeply into the left corner of the flight envelope.
Have fun learning the routines. The flight model on the A2A J3 Cub is very close to the real thing and about as good as it gets if learning to fly these comedy routines in FSX is a goal.
Good luck,
Dudley Henriques

Mr. Henriques, If I could get to that level of expertise in a J-3, I would consider it a major accomplishment. Unfortunately, youthful ignorance precluded me from obtaining my Grandfather's J-3 which was offered when I was completing my flight instruction with the Civil Air Patrol in my teens. I was too obsessed with power and gauges to be bothered with tubes and fabric...oh to be able to step back in time. My jet jockey days are over, but the passion for flying remains. Rentals tend not to be real happy with acrobatic routines and until I can get my hands on J-3 I can call my own, FSX will have to do. Besides, If I did those routines with the Wife on board, I might have more peace and quiet than I bargained for :D

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Arwen
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by Arwen »

I'm likely going to get a lot of flack for this post, but I'm very upset about this.

This is a really, really BAD idea. I've been a huge fan of A2A since your Piper Cub was first released, and have constantly recommended your products to other simmers. For the first time ever, you have done something that I totally do not understand and that I cannot support, and you have just slipped a couple of notches in my book.

I bought your C-172 trainer on Jan 31, 2014 for $49.99 and I'm ONLY using it in P3D2 . . . I have never even installed FSX on my current PC (nor do I ever intend to). I even made that clear when I posted in these forums and was basically told that A2A did not officially support P3D, but that the C172 would work just fine in P3D2.

So now, less than 4 months later, I have to spend another $39.99 ($69.99 - $30 rebate) if I want to update to v.2.0 of the Accu-Sim core. So the total cost of my C-172 will be just shy of $90! That's a lot to ask from a faithful customer. I don't even want the FSX/P3D bundle version; all I have ever wanted is a P3D2 version (but that would now cost me an additional $49.99!).

How exactly is my $90 C-172 any different/better than the $50 FSX version?

Also, what does the P3D Professional version of the C-172 add for the extra $30 cost?

I've recently bought a number of Orbx scenery products for P3D and they all came with multiple FSX/P3D2 installers. They have not charged a penney extra for the P3D version (or charged extra for the Professional P3D version). The same is true for HiFi Technologies' Actice Sky Next.

I was planning on purchasing your Piper Cherokee on the day it is released. Now I think I'll pass and find another company to purchase my P3D2 aircraft from.
Last edited by Arwen on 20 May 2014, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Cycliste1961
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by Cycliste1961 »

I expected a serious sim A/C company such as A2A to move to P3D; it is the SIM of the future, period. As a P3D owner and a past FSX enthusiast, I would rather pay a little more and get native and supported installers. I hate to spend my time on temporary "fixes'". So I welcome A2A's move. I want to spend my time flying, leaving the software issues and other technicalities to the pros. I did pay for the C172 in FSX. I installed in in P3D afterwards, but it took some time to get it to work correctly. I will gladly get the Cherokee, as long as it's a detailed trainer to practice on. I don't have unlimited funds for this hobby, but I will spend on great products and support. A2A had no choice but to make the move to P3D.

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awash2002
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by awash2002 »

I'm gonna stick with FSX as it is the sim for me
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aero_edge
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by aero_edge »

So just to clarify, if I already own the C172 Trainer for FSX, will I need to pay for the Accu-Sim core v.2.0 update?

Win Tenk
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by Win Tenk »

aero_edge wrote:So just to clarify, if I already own the C172 Trainer for FSX, will I need to pay for the Accu-Sim core v.2.0 update?
My thoughts exactly - I was reading it that way too.

Molly - A2A
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by Molly - A2A »

Of course you would not have to pay for the Accu-Sim Core Updates.

aero_edge
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by aero_edge »

molleh wrote:Of course you would not have to pay for the Accu-Sim Core Updates.
Okay, I was just making sure! Thanks for the quick reply!

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dvm
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Re: A2A Licensing with FSX and P3D

Post by dvm »

All I can say is P3D that much better than FSX and worth the hassle and expense for the average simmer ? Doesn't blow my skirt up ! A lot too do over nothing. My dedicated FSX rig with Orbx scenery runs smooth and looks great.

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