Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

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Norforce
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Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by Norforce »

Don't know if any body has seen this


http://www.kansas.com/2014/01/01/320643 ... -b-29.html
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by pilotgod »

That's terrific news! I was unaware that the project has been restarted as it was looking very questionable a couple of years ago.

Now we need to find an eccentric billionaire to fund restoring a B-36D to flying condition. Six turning, four burning. (Well, I am allowed to dream right?)
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by Lewis - A2A »

There's a chance ill be at Oshkosh this year and seeing a B29 fly in will be, well I mean WOW! 8)
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by cflord »

Great news. Another old WWII airplane being brought back to life.

Keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down!

Ret SMSgt Cliff Lord - C-130 Flight Engineer & Mechanic 8)

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JoeS475
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by JoeS475 »

Can you even imagine seeing Fifi and Doc flying together? This is actually going to become a possibility... Wow!

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Mig_Driver
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by Mig_Driver »

Joe totally read my mind. I was just thinking FiFi... it would be great if Kee Bird could be restored again too but... maybe she flies best in the past.
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CAPFlyer
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by CAPFlyer »

Kee Bird's damage is probably far beyond economical repair. The Collings Foundation is fundraising for a B-29, whether it be possibly getting Doc after it's restored or for another airplane (maybe Kermit's?) I suspect that the chances of seeing a 3rd B-29 airworthy is probably another decade away, and by then FiFi may be grounded as she is running out of airframe life.
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by Mig_Driver »

Just the man I was thinkin of, Chris! I was wondering what your estimation of her eligibility for restoration would be after the fire. The new photos look like she lost her tail? Mark Allen needs to get on top of that one. Perhaps a SkyCrane helo could pick up the fuselage and wings separately after being removed by a crew, and placed onto a huge beyond definition cargo vessel...

Well, if I win the lottery anytime soon ( I surmise it would take at least a few million to do it)...
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by ft »

CAPFlyer wrote:Kee Bird's damage is probably far beyond economical repair.
Isn't 'economic repair' quite a contradiction in terms when talking warbird restoration? Unless you consider 'less money than some eccentric (but in every which way brilliant and loveable) fellow with deep pockets is able to throw at it' economic... :)
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by CAPFlyer »

I use "economic repair" in Warbird terms by whether the investment in time is worth the return in the air. For the amount of work required to fix the backbone and completely replace the entire section that was burned down on Kee Bird, it would take more years of labor (not to mention money) than there are hours left on the airframe. You would have a zero time second on a plane that has only 100 or so flying hours left on it, so you'd never really make back any of that investment.

Also, when the truckloads of money required to restore the plane turns into trainloads, I think we're getting beyond what even a Mark Allen can afford. :)

Considering there are at least 3 other B-29's that are in far better shape and could potentially be returned to airworthy status in the US, why spend the money on Kee Bird?
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by pjc747 »

CAPFlyer wrote:I use "economic repair" in Warbird terms by whether the investment in time is worth the return in the air. For the amount of work required to fix the backbone and completely replace the entire section that was burned down on Kee Bird, it would take more years of labor (not to mention money) than there are hours left on the airframe. You would have a zero time second on a plane that has only 100 or so flying hours left on it, so you'd never really make back any of that investment.

Also, when the truckloads of money required to restore the plane turns into trainloads, I think we're getting beyond what even a Mark Allen can afford. :)

Considering there are at least 3 other B-29's that are in far better shape and could potentially be returned to airworthy status in the US, why spend the money on Kee Bird?
Well, judging by the photos of the Kee Bird wreckage, you would need to rebuild almost the entire fuselage. With that in mind, wouldn't it end up with more airframe life, seeing that so much has been rebuilt? From what I understand, the airframe life limitations would be based on pressurization cycles, and therefore the determining factor for its available life. If the plane isn't pressurized, and isn't some composite with a lifetime limit placed on it (i.e. Cessna Corvallis), it can fly as long as its airworthiness can be maintained, i.e. a 1945 DC-3 or B-17, of the same vintage.

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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by GoggleEye »

Interesting subject. DC-3s, B-17, the DC-3 was called the work horse of the sky. Am I comparing soup to nuts? Look what it took to restore Glacier Girl how many feet of ice she was in? I don't remember not only the frame the entire aircraft was severely damaged. Think it boils down to funding and finding deep enough pockets for the restoration project. If the frame and aircraft is restored to flyable condition does air frame life really matter? It can be built back to new condition. It is about the history and remembrance of the men that flew those beautiful aircraft and the Freedom we all share today. While money certainly plays a big factor not sure you would ever get the investment back out of restoring the majority of the airplanes that have been restored. That brings me around to the second thought it is not about the money invested or the number of man hours for the restoration.
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CAPFlyer
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by CAPFlyer »

Pressurization cycles are only part of how the "life limit" of an airplane is calculated. On unpressurized aircraft, it may be done simply by flight hours on given components or on landing cycles. On the B-29, the Wing Spar is what has the life limit and it is this which will ground FiFi in another 8-10 years based on flying ~100 hours a year. The only way to "zero time" the airframe, whether it be Kee Bird, Doc, or FiFi, would be to replace the entire wing spars, something that is far beyond what anyone would be willing to invest the time and money to do. Doing it on a P-38 or P-51 is one thing as there are plenty of them still flying for one and they are affordable to operate thus there is a return on the investment of essentially building one from scratch (as many of the recent "restorations" are in reality) especially since the tooling used to build the new wings for these P-51's can be spread out over multiple aircraft. With only 3-4 flyable/potentially flyable B-29's, you can't make the same argument for that kind of investment. As it is, it's likely that none of FiFi's engines (and Doc's as well) will ever require overhaul prior to the airframes being grounded because the new hybrids on the airframes have 1000hr+ Time Between Overhaul and only about 1000 hours left on the airframes. The original engines had a TBO, even with great care, of 75-100 hours.

There is a practical and financial limit to everything. At some point, it just simply isn't worth doing. That's where you're at with Kee Bird.
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by cflord »

A few movie clips of Doc's recovery, restoration, and engine delivery:

Rescuing Doc from China Lake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTJPTuGkMU

Doc at Boeing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOjExDHww4

Doc’s engine arrives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY3lQBiJaPQ

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GoggleEye
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Re: Hopes high that restored B-29 ‘Doc’ will fly in 2014

Post by GoggleEye »

Cap thank you for the explanation and learned something new about the airframe life thank you. Watched and enjoyed the videos brings up a couple of questions. . I did not now that Boeing had a division in Wichita, KS. Assumed that Boeing was at Tacoma, WA only. Didn't Boeing move from some place? To Tacoma to build ships originaly and as the war broke out started building aircraft? Sorry off topic? Did they build some of the B-17s & B-29s in Wichita? Packard in Detroit built Merlins for marine and airplane engines. Need to do more historical research.
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