Hey guys
With A2A going in this GA direction with their 172 and Cherokee projects with 'trainer/aircraft owner' in mind, what type of GA twin would you like to see? Obviously exotic vintage twins like the Howard 500 Beech 18, DC-3, Goose, Electra Jr, Bobcat, P-38, F7F..etc would be the top of many folks list, including mine. I am not talking about those tho. I am talking about something that would be a logical followup in the 'trainer/GA owner' category. Something that you would see on a typical GA flight line, and also something that might go with the Redbird training sim.
Multi engine flying/ownership is VERY expensive and hard to keep current. Multi training is a next step in flight training process after getting your single training. Since building multi hours is so expensive, I think an GA twin of Accusim caliber would be very well received. Of course we all really want our classic jets, warbirds and vintage GA/airliners as well, which I think we will get to once again after this first batch of GA releases. Waaay down the road tho when we get to the next batch of GA releases, I think the GA twin might be something worth looking at.
I think a good choice would be something small enough to be an effective trainer, yet big enough to be a workhorse/business tool for users of Airhauler, FSpassengers, VAs..etc. A B58 Baron, Seneca, Twin Commander, Twin Bonanza come to mind there. Even tho a B58 or Seneca are on the big side for trainers, airline flight schools such as JAL and KLM do use them very effectively as multi trainers. Like the B58, Seneca, and others, you can remove the rear seats to turn them into effective cargo planes.
Other aspects of this is the enhancement of the accusim training into multi flying (learning Vmc factors and such) but also 'accusimming' the ownership/operation of a business tool, where operating costs would become a factor. Kind of like an expansion of the COTS idea.
Personally I think I would go for the B58, just because it is a very good and well built airplane. You could also eventually accusim the PT6A for turbine training and stick them on the B58 ala Rocket Engineering. One advantage of the Seneca is that it shares the common Cherokee airframe which would cut down some development time. Twin Commanders are just beautiful airplanes, and great workhorses. Bob Hoover certainly enjoyed the Twin Commander I really enjoyed Milton Shupe's offerings for FS9 too.
Anyway, if you could pick an A2A GA twin, what would you choose? Would you want a light GA twin such as a Seminole, Duchess, Twin Star, Twin Comanche, Skymaster, Cougar, Apache..etc. Would you want something more mid range like a Aztec, 310, Baron, Seneca, Twin Commander, T-Bone. Or would you go with larger cabin class size such as Queen Air, 340/420, Navajo size stuff.
Cheers
TJ
Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
Last edited by pilottj on 22 Aug 2013, 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin
Well, DC-3 that is..
BUT, considering the training market, I would restate what I've said earlier: King Air as a common, advanced IFR, multi-engine trainer would be most sensible addition in my opinion. It is also much used in many other missions, configurations and environments around the world, from bushes to executive flights. Also, the turboprop engine management is something that would truly benefit from Accu-Sim. Still, we would need some hardware designer to produce a reasonable throttle quadrant with actual beta detents to get the full benefit..
BUT, considering the training market, I would restate what I've said earlier: King Air as a common, advanced IFR, multi-engine trainer would be most sensible addition in my opinion. It is also much used in many other missions, configurations and environments around the world, from bushes to executive flights. Also, the turboprop engine management is something that would truly benefit from Accu-Sim. Still, we would need some hardware designer to produce a reasonable throttle quadrant with actual beta detents to get the full benefit..
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin
I would go for Diamond DA42 Twin Star.
Diesel as fuel is pretty interesting in a GA. When the Twin Star crossed the Atlantic they said with favourable weather and economic flight you could get 2500NM out of that little bugger. That’s impressive…
And it looks nice
Diesel as fuel is pretty interesting in a GA. When the Twin Star crossed the Atlantic they said with favourable weather and economic flight you could get 2500NM out of that little bugger. That’s impressive…
And it looks nice
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin
I would go with DC-3
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin
Absolute vote for an accusim GA piston twin. There is a long overdue.
I primarily vote for a plane made of metal. piston engines, rather underpowered than too much power. That makes power management especially in bad/icing weather conditions challanging.
Cessna 310
Cessna 337
Cessna 404
Cessna 414
Beechcraft D50 Twin Bonanza
Beech Baron 55/58
Cessna T303
Piper Twin Comanche (Turbo)
Piper Seneca-II
Piper Navajo
Piper 60 Aerostar 600/700
Piper 44 Seminole
Partenavia - P68 Victor
Beech 18 of course (modern cockpit)
..
For sure there are many more and many lovely turboshaft engine powered twins, but that would be a too long developement into new accusim turboshaft engines - although there is a massive need for it at the professional addon (=accusim) market.
I primarily vote for a plane made of metal. piston engines, rather underpowered than too much power. That makes power management especially in bad/icing weather conditions challanging.
Cessna 310
Cessna 337
Cessna 404
Cessna 414
Beechcraft D50 Twin Bonanza
Beech Baron 55/58
Cessna T303
Piper Twin Comanche (Turbo)
Piper Seneca-II
Piper Navajo
Piper 60 Aerostar 600/700
Piper 44 Seminole
Partenavia - P68 Victor
Beech 18 of course (modern cockpit)
..
For sure there are many more and many lovely turboshaft engine powered twins, but that would be a too long developement into new accusim turboshaft engines - although there is a massive need for it at the professional addon (=accusim) market.
P3D v3.2
Addons: FSG2010, REX4 Direct+Soft Clouds, Hifi ASN, PMDG, Dodosim, A2A accusim all, Katana4X, Majestic, ORBX, Fly Tampa, DRZEWIECKI DESIGN, FSDreamteam, Flight Beam,..,..
Addons: FSG2010, REX4 Direct+Soft Clouds, Hifi ASN, PMDG, Dodosim, A2A accusim all, Katana4X, Majestic, ORBX, Fly Tampa, DRZEWIECKI DESIGN, FSDreamteam, Flight Beam,..,..
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin
Scott,
i am a customer since the first accusim aircraft. You gave me steady trust due to your permanent innovation, professionalism ,perfectionism. Whatever you develope in GA market, get my money - as much as you want.
i am a customer since the first accusim aircraft. You gave me steady trust due to your permanent innovation, professionalism ,perfectionism. Whatever you develope in GA market, get my money - as much as you want.
P3D v3.2
Addons: FSG2010, REX4 Direct+Soft Clouds, Hifi ASN, PMDG, Dodosim, A2A accusim all, Katana4X, Majestic, ORBX, Fly Tampa, DRZEWIECKI DESIGN, FSDreamteam, Flight Beam,..,..
Addons: FSG2010, REX4 Direct+Soft Clouds, Hifi ASN, PMDG, Dodosim, A2A accusim all, Katana4X, Majestic, ORBX, Fly Tampa, DRZEWIECKI DESIGN, FSDreamteam, Flight Beam,..,..
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin
Beech 18. Its like a mini DC-3. Float, military, private, commercial, freight...you name it and its done it. A prefect fit for A2A.
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Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin
Great ideas guys
Lol I probably should have rephrased the thread question to "Your choice for A2A GA Multi engine Trainer'. I really want a Beech 18 too, that would my first choice for any A2A project, as would a DC-3, F7F...etc. I'll buy anything that A2A makes LOL. A2A hasn't forgotten about the F-104, F-4, and all the other vintage warbirds/liners/GAs that brought us here in the first place. No doubt those projects will still be done. I just think A2A might have just seen a giant shining gold dollar sign in the virtual training market.
I am talking about the multi trainer as an eventual (like 3-5 years away) follow up to these 172 and Cherokee projects. There is evidently a lot of money to be made in the GA virtual training market, given that buying real world flight time is so expensive. With the type of recognition that A2A is getting from all these 172 sponsorships and partnerships with Redbird, Champion, Phillips66...and so on (you know they will get more). Considering these sponsorships, A2A may have hit a potential gold mine for profit in developing these high quality training GAs that are recognized by real world flight training outfits.
What if A2A gets a big contract or sponsorship deal from ERAU, ATP, FIT or one of the big flight training academies? So you know the question has probably come up in A2A staff meetings about continuing this GA trend. If they haven't considered it now, you know they eventually will, certainly if the 172 is a huge sale success.
So when it comes to thinking about a good GA multi trainer, what would you like to see. I was suggesting a midsize Baron/Seneca type trainer, just so it could have some other applications for us FS Geeks outside of being pure trainer.
Cheers
TJ
Lol I probably should have rephrased the thread question to "Your choice for A2A GA Multi engine Trainer'. I really want a Beech 18 too, that would my first choice for any A2A project, as would a DC-3, F7F...etc. I'll buy anything that A2A makes LOL. A2A hasn't forgotten about the F-104, F-4, and all the other vintage warbirds/liners/GAs that brought us here in the first place. No doubt those projects will still be done. I just think A2A might have just seen a giant shining gold dollar sign in the virtual training market.
I am talking about the multi trainer as an eventual (like 3-5 years away) follow up to these 172 and Cherokee projects. There is evidently a lot of money to be made in the GA virtual training market, given that buying real world flight time is so expensive. With the type of recognition that A2A is getting from all these 172 sponsorships and partnerships with Redbird, Champion, Phillips66...and so on (you know they will get more). Considering these sponsorships, A2A may have hit a potential gold mine for profit in developing these high quality training GAs that are recognized by real world flight training outfits.
What if A2A gets a big contract or sponsorship deal from ERAU, ATP, FIT or one of the big flight training academies? So you know the question has probably come up in A2A staff meetings about continuing this GA trend. If they haven't considered it now, you know they eventually will, certainly if the 172 is a huge sale success.
So when it comes to thinking about a good GA multi trainer, what would you like to see. I was suggesting a midsize Baron/Seneca type trainer, just so it could have some other applications for us FS Geeks outside of being pure trainer.
Cheers
TJ
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
A DC-3 or Beech 18 would be my first choices,
but just about any GA twin would be great. I am eagerly awaiting the 172, though!
but just about any GA twin would be great. I am eagerly awaiting the 172, though!
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
I love round engines as much as the next guy, but I'd love a 58P baron with the IO 550's
Cheers!
Bud
Cheers!
Bud
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
While essentially a Beech 18, how about an AT-11 Kansan? Uncommon enough to be interesting, a trainer (albeit not GA), and still a warbird for those of us who originally discovered and supported A2A because of their WWII aircraft!
I'd also love to see a war weary C-47A with failures happening all over the place to keep us on our toes!
Joe
I'd also love to see a war weary C-47A with failures happening all over the place to keep us on our toes!
Joe
Joe
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
Tecnam p2006t.
Andrew
ASUS ROG Maximus Hero X, Intel i7 8770K, Nvidia GTX 1080, 32GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 RAM, Corsair H90i liquid cooler.
All Accusim Aircraft
Accu-Feel, 3d Lights Redux
ASUS ROG Maximus Hero X, Intel i7 8770K, Nvidia GTX 1080, 32GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 RAM, Corsair H90i liquid cooler.
All Accusim Aircraft
Accu-Feel, 3d Lights Redux
- CAPFlyer
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Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
GA Twin - That means no C-47, no D-18 or any other Twin Beech, no King Air, nothing with BIG ENGINES.
I've always thought the Piper Seminole is an underrepresented airplane and is one of the favorites of the flight training community for multi. I also like the 310 for that purpose as there are a few schools that use them, but here's what I'd throw in the ring -
The Twin Commanche.
Why? Because you have the PA-30, which is the standard model, but also the PA-39 which is a turbocharged, counter-rotating engine version.
You could also move back in time a little and build the Apache since there were a multitude of versions of it and it eventually evolved into the Aztec which was the standard for light twins until its production ended in 1982. It held its own against the Baron in performance, but at a much lower price (almost 30% less), making it an attractive airplane for both flight training and for personal use.
I've always thought the Piper Seminole is an underrepresented airplane and is one of the favorites of the flight training community for multi. I also like the 310 for that purpose as there are a few schools that use them, but here's what I'd throw in the ring -
The Twin Commanche.
Why? Because you have the PA-30, which is the standard model, but also the PA-39 which is a turbocharged, counter-rotating engine version.
You could also move back in time a little and build the Apache since there were a multitude of versions of it and it eventually evolved into the Aztec which was the standard for light twins until its production ended in 1982. It held its own against the Baron in performance, but at a much lower price (almost 30% less), making it an attractive airplane for both flight training and for personal use.
Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
my choice would be for a Cessna Skymaster (337)
Orville's law: when the altitude of the ground at your current location exceeds the altitude of your aircraft, you have most assuredly crashed.
- Pistonpilot
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Re: Your choice for an A2A GA Twin (multi trainer)
Don't get me wrong; I love the Skymaster. It's presently my favorite IFR practice airplane in Carenado form and there are many, many things I would do for an A2A version that cannot be discussed here.dacamp66 wrote:my choice would be for a Cessna Skymaster (337)
However, it really isn't a great multi-engine training platform as it is center-line thrust and thus you miss out on a lot of the stuff you need to know, understand, and practice for an unrestricted multi-engine rating.
Still a spectacular airplane, though!
-Ian C
DWC Alumni. Commercial Instrument Single/Multi-Engine Land. [Former] Police, Fire, & 9-1-1 Dispatcher. [Former] MAINEiac Crew Chief.
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