I like sambt am in the process of building a new PC

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

I bought this motherboard a Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-SH2 which was reviewed at Tomshardware.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/ ... g_chipset/

I see that they also had it for a low cost system build
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/24/ ... _marathon/

I did notice the B2 steppings of the AMD Phenom processor had some serious problems and the B3 steppings are supposed to be fixed.

Now I don't have a lot of cash to build a new system so I may opt instead for the AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ or the AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000 + microprocessor.

Honestly I'd prefer to build an Intel system but I couldn't swing it right now.I chose the motherboard because it has the best Integrated Graphics just to get it up and running and I do intend to get a discrete graphics card later when I can afford it.The Gigabyte motherboard I selected supports the new PCI Express 16X 2.0 standard so that will be a plus.
Right now I am so cash poor I'll have to use an extra IDE hard drive on it temporarily and use an older DVD drive to get it up and running.
Also I may have to use an older case and temporarily use a 400 watt power supply from a 1.7 Ghz Celeron system.

So all I am looking for is just the motherboard,processor,heat sink and fan and some RAM at least 2 gigs initially.
I am looking at spending only $500 at first just to get it up and running.
Next year I could probably easily afford to build a high end system but that's next year.

O.K. here is the microprocessor I'd prefer but I don't see it quite available yet at any retail outfit. It's the AMD Phenom X4 9850 which I think would have a comparable performance as an Intel Q6600 Quad Core Processor.

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_125a.html

Honestly I didn't think it's fair to compare it with a high end
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650/Q9450 (2.66GHz) processor in SimHQ's review.I mean my God that's an Intel Extreme part.
However it looks about somewhat like around 13% less frame rates with Microsoft Flight Simulator X with the Phenom X4 9850(This is the benchmark I am looking for and not Quake 4,Prey etc. because well I want to run MS FSX sometime this year.)
Should I wait for the new "fixed" higher end version of the AMD Phenom or should I just go for a cheaper AMD Athlon X2 6400+ or 6000+ processor.Also I am wondering about the performance of the 6400+ or the 6000+ compared to the Phenom 9850 ESPECIALLY running Microsoft FSX.I think the AMD Phenom X4 9850 will be priced at about $260 retail which is similar to Intels Quad Core Q6600.Also I consider the low end fixed AMD Phenom X4 9550 a decent possibility albeit it's probably about 15% slower than the Phenom X4 9850

The retail store I went to PC Club just hated the Phenom processors and said they had nothing but problems with them.It looks as if they won't carry the new fixed Phenom processors.However they were refering to the faulty B2 steppings and they never had the B3 version.
I only see only one B3 version here and it's the slowest of the B3's.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103251

So what do you think guys which AMD processor should I go for?
AMD Athlon X2 6000+,Athlon X2 6400+,Phenom X4 9550 or wait for the Phenom X4 9850?

[Lewis - A2A]

Price wise theres next to no differance between Inteland AMD. An equal price intel will in most cases outperform the AMD at the same price point.

Q6600, E6750, E6850, and even the new wolfdale E8400's are not all that expensive.

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

I did make a mistake. In the Sim HQ article they were comparing it with this Intel processor instead.
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 C1 Stepping Yorkfield 2.66GHz 12MB L2 LGA 775 Quad Core Processor
http://pcclub.com/product_details.cfm?itemno=A1938473
It's priced at $379.99

PC Club a few days ago had the AMD Phenom X4 9850 listed at
$259.99 however they removed the listing.

But for my budget this great Intel processor would leave me just with a processor that's pretty much it well and some memory.

Also as of yet I don't see the new B3 Phenoms listed as supported for that gigabyte motherboard.So it's quite possible that the Phenom X4 9850 with 4000 mhz hypertransport won't work on that mobo but then again it might.

Even though its not listed as a supported processor, the fixed B3 stepping Phenom X4 9550 should work with that gigabyte motherboard at 3600 mhz hypertransport speeds.
At newegg it's listed for around $200 which is fairly inexpensive.

At Tomshardware the Athlon 64 X2 6400+ under their comparison tests had almost the same framerates for Quake 4 as for the Intel Quad Core Q6600 but I wonder about what the frame rates would be for Microsoft Flight Simulator X.
The Athlon 64 X2 6400+ is about $75 cheaper than the Intel Quad Core Q6600.However the Intel Quad Core Q6600 would be better for hyperthreading applications.

I do see a benchmark for the Athlon 64 X2 6000+,the Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800,Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6800,Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 right here for Microsoft Flight Simulator X
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1 ... 088,00.asp
The article is from April 9,2007 so it's nearly a year old.

So it does look as though the Athlon 64 X2 6000+ is adequate for Microsoft Flight Simulator X.Maybe I'll opt for the Athlon 64 X2 6400+
Thank you very much again Lewis for your input.I'd like others to share their experiences and help me too.My 3.2 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 with hyperthreading from 2004 is too long in the tooth.
I am asking anyone here with their experience with Microsoft Flight Simulator X and the Athlon 64 X2 Processors.Does it run well.
Obviously later I will have to get a higher end graphics card as I doubt the Integrated Graphics(even though it's DX10 capable) could run FSX on the Gigabyte motherboard I have.

[sambt]

Jon, I would consider the 64x2 6400, as the quad is over kill and pricey. I will get back to you later as to FPS on my system. So far not bad with only one card. I plan to xfire as funds permit. I like all sliders maxed and with Vista 64 in DX10 it is outstanding.

I happen to like AMD for the quality and bang for the buck. Most guys shoot for the FPS and will pay whatever for a few more FPS. Not me, as I am always looking for the sweet spot as far as money goes. To each his own I guess. I did not want to pay big for the 1 gig card and will wait for price to drop and then it's xfire time.

It appears you are doing your homework and best wishes on your new build.

Sam

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

Thanks Sam you are right either the Athlon 64 X2 in the 6000+ or the 6400 + are the economical choice(bang for the buck).By the way I was looking at that MSI K9A2 Platinum you chose, that is outstanding.I think I'll take my Gigabyte mobo back and get the same one as you because of it's great features with multiple graphic slots for crossfire.It seems as you are the one who has done the real homework.Delving further into the new quad core Phenoms I myself don't think they are worth it either.
For gaming the Athlon 64 X2 6400+ fairs very favorably(almost the same) compared to the Intel Quad Core Q6600.The X2 6000+ lags a little behind but not by much.

The Motherboard you chose left it open to a lot of future upgrades.
So you made a great pick.

By the way I am wondering what power supply did you choose for your system? I was looking at a few like this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817194030

[sambt]

Good choice. However I opted for the 750 Watt Corsair from Newegg. Good quality and very quiet. Right now it is around $175 with a $40 rebate. Not a bad price and should handle things for awhile.

Sam

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

You know I think I would be dissatisfied if I built a system that wasn't very expandable.I think I was jumping the gun is some aspects.
In the calculus of building a system right now I am very limited on funds.
Perhaps with the economic stimulus check in a couple of months the outlook might be different.In about a year I'll have my house all paid for and then whoa I'll have a lot of extra cash left over every month.
A 650 watt power supply probably wouldn't do except for powering one very powerful GPU.

I looked at this 880 watt power supply.This looks good both for Intel and AMD systems.This would be perfect for either powerful SLI or Crossfire GPU cards.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817128010

It is inexpensive plus it has very good reviews.
So I'll spend my money first on this and also get the Windows Vista 64 bit Home Premium DVD.

I'll take that Gigabyte Mobo back and instead buy a nice case for starting on the build on a new system.
Besides component prices will drop in price during the meantime.
I do very much like your very expandable MSI board if I decide for a very expandable inexpensive AMD system.Also I noticed that AMD was putting out some very interesting low power versions of their Athlon 64 X2's .
So their might be a possibility of some new and better performing AMD CPU's coming out in addition.Also I've heard that they are going to drop prices on their processors further.
I've always preferred the ATI cards over NVidia as every one I've ever had has always worked.I've had to return 3 bad NVidia GPU cards.

I've also heard that Microsoft is extending support for Windows XP(yes even the home version) till 2014.

Since Intel is coming out with some new chips I should wait and see.
If I can't afford to completely build a nice PC this year then at least I'll have the beefy 880 watt power supply,case and 64 bit Vista Home premium for next years build when incredible components will be out.

[Lewis - A2A]

When it comes down to upgradeability with regards future proofing a system coupled with buget and flight sims then the best system is an Intel based one with an Nvidea Card.

The old days of buying a cheap AMD that out performs the latest pentiums are somewhat gone now. I personally would find it very hard to recommend an AMD in the current climate and esp if FSX is the sim of choice.

[techy111]

Lewis......I see our Systems are pretty similar...!

I have the P5KE with WiFi board and 4 Gig of Ram.....

And the E6750......nice chip...

Bottle neck i think is my card.....X1950Pro ATI....

Hows the Nvidia card behaving as i was thinking of getting either 2 x 3750 ATI cards in Xfire or a single 8800GTX....

Cheaper option is Xfire with slighter better performance than the GTX.....what do you think mate....?

Sorry for side tracking your thread guys....

Tony

[Lewis - A2A]

well I also have 4GB ram now but i'm mixing speeds and I am not sure if I get any real benifit being on XP still so may go back to 2GB at PC-8500

I loves me 8800, ive got the 512GTS with the G92 core the same as the GT's. So its even closer to GTX performance.

The trouble with the ATIx2 is the same as the current nvid 9800x2. SLI and Crossfire although have been around a while are still not standardised and both still have there headaches. I'm also now pumping around 22inch widescreen of pixels about but I seem to get on just fine. Every game is full on max but Armed assult (sorry i left you guys the other night the pc/armed assult crashed and I though sod it so went to bed) and FSX. Both these programs I do run quite high though and can use lightbloom in fsx and post processing in ARMA depending on the flight or mission.

Lots of tree's and grass means i have to lower settings in arma and too much autogen and AI traffic both ground and air in FSX means candy like light bloom needs turning off. However light bloom at night in FSX is just brilliant.

Ive got a Q6600 with G0 stepping in the cuboard here at work and am still not sure if its worth me taking it home. I think Ill have to talk to fred whos just setup his Q6600 after going from a 6850.

[techy111]

OK mate i'll have a look at the GTS and GTX and take the plunge with Nvidia (never owned one before) and see where it takes me......also buying a 24 inch at months end....

Cheers mate.....No worries bout slipping off the other night....sleeps more important and that pizza sure was goooooooood....

Tony

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

I really like Lewis's processor too.Kind of pricey though but a very nice high end system.It looks as though you are right especially with the NVidia cards in FSX as I see here.They seem to very much outperform ATI (AMD) cards in FSX.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/04/01/ ... page4.html

This is the system running it at the bottom of the page.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/04/01/ ... page3.html

So far I've ordered the 880 watt power supply and Windows Vista 64 bit home.Well I think I'll opt out for the idea of building a cheap AMD system and go instead for a better beefier Intel based one.

[Geewiz]

Greetings all...

In my quest to find the "sweet spot" in price performance, I came across this barebones kit at TigerDirect.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... &CatId=333

The motherboard may be a bit low-end, but I'm not looking for a lot of bells and whistles. My intent is to build a solid performing system that will handle FSX/B-17:II

What's your take on this combo?

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

It looks like a pretty good deal.The Hard Drive is on the small side though.
Otherwise a good inexpensive system.
I am opting for at least a quad core CPU because from this video it looks as though FSX can use up to 256 cores (maybe in the year 2024 we might have CPU's like that.This is a demo of 8 cores and FSX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wKe3V1l ... re=related

Right now I don't want to get a CPU right away because they become cheaper and better every day.Instead now I am looking at cooling.I may opt for a liquid cooling kit or very good air cooling components.I saw a really neat vaporphase cooler but that is out of my price league.
http://www.xtremesystems.com/modules.ph ... tent&id=33

http://www2.asetek.com/default.asp?show ... tSection=2

Another great option would be to connect up some copper tubing (already have 50 feet of the stuff anyways) and some great insulator(around the tubing to my PC) from my Window air conditioner and use it on the cheap to Cool PC components.I could move my computer desk nearby that Window Air Conditioner so that would be no problem.
They used to air condition Mainframes in the old days.
I'll still need some efficient heatsinks though.
I should also use a very efficient air cooled fan/heatsink system as well in case I should opt to have the air conditioner off and have no need for overclocking.
I could use the powerful air conditioner to cool the house in the summer time as well.I better get a beefy air conditioner for this since I will be using it for dual usage.
Another simpler method would be to connect a 120 mm hose from a household air conditioner to the side air intake of the PC Case to blast very cold air from the air conditioner onto the motherboard and still use a very efficient air cooled system.Obviously one would have to mount a frontal plate on half of the air conditioner.

Cooling parts don't get obsolete quick so that would be a good project.
I think my air conditioner is getting old so perhaps I'll replace it with a newer one.

I think Geewiz has made a great choice.
The Intel E8400 Wolfdale seems to have great framerates in FSX according to this benchmark which came from a review of the flawed Phenom 9600 back in December 2007.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/694- ... -9600.html
According to this the E8400 has the same framerates in FSX as the Intel Quad Core Extreme QX6850 processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115026

yet for this price here around $210.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115037

The E8400 according to the reviews is very overclockable.
So this should be a screamer in FSX.This looks like the processor I should choose too.