my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

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Mantock
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by Mantock »

bladerunner900 wrote: 30 Nov 2021, 06:11 Here are 'my thoughts', for what it's worth.

I have 136 hours of time in FS2020. About 1 hour of which has been spent actually flying. All the rest has been updates, patches, more updates and yes, even more (huge) updates. Oh, also trying to set up controllers.

That's all. :|
If you've spent over 100hrs in the sim without actually flying then theres definitely a huge problem there! because it should be an even simpler task with the modern UI and sleek outlay of MSFS to get setup and flying. Much faster setup time than P3D or FSX ever was with its clunky user interface that desperately needs updating.

Regards,
-Peter
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ClipperLuna
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by ClipperLuna »

Mantock wrote: 02 Dec 2021, 10:55 If you've spent over 100hrs in the sim without actually flying then theres definitely a huge problem there! because it should be an even simpler task with the modern UI and sleek outlay of MSFS to get setup and flying. Much faster setup time than P3D or FSX ever was with its clunky user interface that desperately needs updating.

Regards,
-Peter
Hi Peter. In my case (I'm guessing similar to Bladerunner's experience), it's not that I've spent >100 hours setting it up, it's that the program has had to run that long just to do installs and updates. The hours I've spent setting up controls, optimizing graphics, finding liveries for the Flybywire A320, etc., are nowhere near that. The way you setup controls in MSFS is very nice. I like the way you can browse through them. The custom joystick feature (the thing where you can add curves and caps to the inputs) is great.

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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by Alfredson007 »

On my behalf, i'd say that we have the best default civilian simulator ever (non-modded sim). I mean the default aircraft really are the best ones there is for default planes. Name better ones? DCS doesn't count, it has incredibly good Mustang but that's it and it is a military sim. I own nearly all the sims, from x-plane to afs2, and i find the MSFS planes to be best, from default ones. The sim has issues but it WILL be the best civilian sim there is, actually, i think it already is.

For FSX i had payware planes that weren't nearly as good as the default ones in MSFS. Even when you rule out the flight model that was ancient by default in FSX (only a2a made it modern), but also system-wise i have had poorer payware planes in FSX that i have in MSFS included by default.

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bladerunner900
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by bladerunner900 »

ClipperLuna wrote: 02 Dec 2021, 13:21
Mantock wrote: 02 Dec 2021, 10:55 If you've spent over 100hrs in the sim without actually flying then theres definitely a huge problem there! because it should be an even simpler task with the modern UI and sleek outlay of MSFS to get setup and flying. Much faster setup time than P3D or FSX ever was with its clunky user interface that desperately needs updating.

Regards,
-Peter
Hi Peter. In my case (I'm guessing similar to Bladerunner's experience), it's not that I've spent >100 hours setting it up, it's that the program has had to run that long just to do installs and updates.
This is exactly my case. The first initial install took over 2 days (so much for the Steam 2 hour limit on refunds). Then my controllers were not recognized and I had to set them up manually, one function at a time. This was only partially successful. Then there was a continual stream of patches and updates. Some of which were of 20GB or more, which took more days.

When I finally had it running pretty good I was impressed with how it looks. But was not impressed by the aircraft choice or mediocre handling of said aircraft. After which I ignored the sim for quite some time. I thought I would wait for some serious examples from A2A. Still waiting on that but I start it up once in a while, just to keep it current, so more days of updating. For me, it's going to take some serious warbird offerings from A2A to make all this worthwhile.

Meanwhile, I have P3D v5.3 to install.

Steve.

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AerialShorts
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by AerialShorts »

That has been my experience with “sim time” too. I’ve got lots of extra sim hours that shouldn’t really be there. I had a slower connection when FS2020 first came out and it took 4-5 days to download with the downloads getting hung occasionally. When MS/Asobo did an update to fix the hangs, that download took more days. Unfortunately, the program was spun up and the computer running at high power that whole time - a long-standing issue with FS2020.

As an aside, after the SU7 update I saw someone post that FS2020 uses your Windows update settings when it updates. There is a Windows update setting to use peer to peer networking or not when downloading updates. I’ve always kept that turned off for Windows updates but apparently that limits FS2020 to the same single connection to Microsoft. Supposedly allowing peer to peer (bittorrent-like) connections can really speed up FS2020 downloads but I haven’t tried it yet.
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bullfox
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by bullfox »

I have seen some screen shots where P3D5.3 in Orbx True earth regions looks as good or better than MSFS
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jeepinforfun
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by jeepinforfun »

bullfox wrote: 03 Dec 2021, 15:25 I have seen some screen shots where P3D5.3 in Orbx True earth regions looks as good or better than MSFS
Maybe but it is going to cost you a heck of a lot more than the base MSFS which is always updating.

I purchased a mid-range+ gaming laptop that runs MSFS like a champ and although I look forward to A2A creating content moving forward I have been enjoying the default aircraft more than any past simulator. Are they perfect, no, but I can fly from A to G using a street atlas and I never feel like my planes are flying on the head of a pin like they have in other sims. They also look great and are being updated.

Long update times (most around 6-8 hours) are basically my fault because I have the lowest level of internet speeds for cost reasons, but those times are nowhere near hundreds of hours. Nor has it taken me that long to setup my controllers. It's change on the fly ability is also a big plus.

Over time when A2A start adding more aircraft and even hopefully bring some of our past favorites forward into MSFS I think this new sim will make believers out of the naysayers. I say this because without A2A and tons of addons default P3D with all its problems is really not a sim for all. Most have to bust their EULA just to fly it.

Is MSFS great out of the box, not exactly but ASOBO did not promise that and have stated from the start that continued improvements will have to be made, so far they have lived up to that promise. Was P3D perfect out of the box? To me it seems that those that are very vocal with their complaints about what they say is wrong with MSFS should remember how long it took past sims to improve after release. Go to their forum and put in improvement requests is the best way.

Personally, I will stay with MSFS because I like to fly and its default sandbox is a lot of fun for my type of piloting. Then again to each his own.
Take care, Brett

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Skycat
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by Skycat »

^
Everything Brett said.

I like that in MSFS I can choose any location in the world simply by spinning a globe, and then experience that area with a reasonable confidence in its accuracy. It's refreshing to just go sightseeing for 30 minutes or so. With FSX and P3D I mostly stick to my ORBX enhanced regions and airports. The two sims co-exist on my hard drive and each has its strengths. I enjoy flying both. I do know however that I won't be buying any more True Earth areas for P3D.
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AerialShorts
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by AerialShorts »

Same here. As much as I complain about it, it’s still the best flight sim I’ve flown, in my opinion and experience.
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bullfox
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by bullfox »

Frankly, there are a lot of places its not all that interesting to fly to.
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by tbaac »

I always laugh when I see how many hours I've apparently spent in MSFS as well (I sometimes find myself wondering if counting the overnight updates as gametime is all a cunning plan to weight the numbers in the Steam stats).

It is a lot of fun to fly in. But at the same time I attempted 2 flights today in the FBW A320 from EGLL to LFPG. The first failed on pushback because I had the handbrake on and so the Airbus fell over backwards and crashed :roll: On the second flight I made it to LFPG (one of their special airports) and when taxiing after landing I apparently fell forwards into an invisible hole in the ground and "Collided with an object" :roll:
(I've seen there's a community fix for the holes in the ground at LFPG, but I didn't know it was a problem until I fell into it)

The FBW A320 is great though and (as with everyone) I'm hoping for a Comanche at some point :a2awhite:
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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by ClipperLuna »

I did a test the other day that illustrates my problem with the default aircraft. Starting with the default Bonanza in MSFS, I made sure damage was turned on, set the outside temp to 99F, loaded it up to max gross, and ran it at full throttle with the cowl flaps closed until the CHT was firmly in the red. I then took off with it like that and climbed it out just a few knots above stall. The CHT was indicating as hot as it would go and it was perfectly happy to keep running like that for minutes on end. Next I repeated the flight, but in P3D with the V35. The engine didn't last two minutes before it started missing, smoking, and generally running like crap. For whatever reason I couldn't bring myself to totally destroy it so I landed, extracted myself from the miasma of blue smoke, and checked it out. No compression on cylinders 2 and 6 and the crank was half shot. Of the two flights, the second was satisfying, the first was not. If abusing the plane like that doesn't cause it to break, it doesn't feel like a true sim to me.

Despite that, MSFS looks great and has loads of potential. Looking forward to getting some proper aircraft into it.

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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by FunktasticLucky »

ClipperLuna wrote: 08 Dec 2021, 14:38 I did a test the other day that illustrates my problem with the default aircraft. Starting with the default Bonanza in MSFS, I made sure damage was turned on, set the outside temp to 99F, loaded it up to max gross, and ran it at full throttle with the cowl flaps closed until the CHT was firmly in the red. I then took off with it like that and climbed it out just a few knots above stall. The CHT was indicating as hot as it would go and it was perfectly happy to keep running like that for minutes on end. Next I repeated the flight, but in P3D with the V35. The engine didn't last two minutes before it started missing, smoking, and generally running like crap. For whatever reason I couldn't bring myself to totally destroy it so I landed, extracted myself from the miasma of blue smoke, and checked it out. No compression on cylinders 2 and 6 and the crank was half shot. Of the two flights, the second was satisfying, the first was not. If abusing the plane like that doesn't cause it to break, it doesn't feel like a true sim to me.

Despite that, MSFS looks great and has loads of potential. Looking forward to getting some proper aircraft into it.

No default aircraft have that level of realism in them except maybe DCS. But that is like buying an A2A aircraft. The flight model for the GA planes are pretty well done in MSFS. It's the others that aren't very good but modders have done a great job with them. My favorite is probably the WT CJ4. I fly the crap out of it. But I am waiting for the vtail to make its way to MSFS and I'll be extremely happy.

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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by MarcE »

MSFS is certainly the best flightsim available if you look at the whole package. If you put it down to specific topics it often can't keep up. The DCS flightmodel is much better and all above much more consistent. Support for 3rd party addon developers is very bad in MSFS, many promises but little to see for the paying customer. Wind effects have spoilt takeoff and landing since release, constantly breaking stuff is terribly annoying.

I've been in this hobby for 20 years now and I've never seen a sim with such a high potential and at the same time so many problems that make the potential worthless.

The often mentioned fact that MSFS is a new sim and other sims have had time to be developped is not applicable in my opinion. What counts is the current state of what we get, not what could maybe be if and when. And a commitment of 10 years goes by quickly if they keep their record and speed up. When have A2A released their C172? Or Cherokee?

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Re: my thoughts on MSFS (2020)

Post by twsharp12 »

Just completed my install of P3D 5.3 over the weekend and had time to fly around. My disappointment is extreme. The anti-aliasing is completely broken, and has gotten worse and worse since 5.0. It's really unflyable at this point. It seems maybe it's my own problem but I did a complete uninstall and removal of all P3D folders of 5.2 before reinstalling everything to 5.3. If this isn't fixed, I think I'll be joining the MSFS 2020 club, in particular when A2A releases for it, as P3D is just a disappointment with every new release.

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