Stalllll

The most maneuverable WWII aircraft in history
ICDP
BDG & A2A
Posts: 746
Joined: 22 Jan 2005, 08:52

Post by ICDP »

SD_Research wrote:Our Fw 190 is a "hot" airplane and demands attention and we wouldn't have it any other way.
Neither would I SD :)

Thanks for the feedback.

SD_Research
A2A Major
Posts: 461
Joined: 18 Jan 2005, 11:37

Post by SD_Research »

The point about the wing area is a good one and I should have mentioned that earlier. The Fw 190 has only 87 percent of the wing area of the P-51, yet the takeoff weight in combat trim is the same, 9,500 lbs. This means the Fw 190 is going to stall a lot sooner than the Mustang in a turn. You just can't pull as many g's in the Fw as in the P-51 for the same aircraft weight. As far as the stall warning goes -- which is the other part of the topic here -- our Fw 190 does have adequate stall warning. By no means is it configured to have "no stall warning" and the immediate departure indicated by some reports. It has less warning than the Mustang, and you need to be more aware of where you are in the flight envelope, but it is quite adequate. To confirm, I flew the A-8 last night and repeatedly put it into accelerated stalls in tight turns. I found I could hold it on the edge of a stall indefinitely as I spiraled downwards from high altitude. The wings start to wag just a bit but it's perfectly controllable as long as you modulate the elevator and keep the nose pointed down. The elevator is quite sensitive on this plane (as it is on most any fighter) and has more than enough authority to put the plane into and accelerated stall. Hauling back too hard on the elevator causes the plane to want to snap either right or left, but even after this occurs you can recover quite easily as long as you get right on it, even if the plane goes inverted. I found that to get the plane into a real tailspin, you had to keep the stick full back and really work at it. However, even after getting into a full-blown "death spiral", I was able to recover using normal stall recovery procedures.

As I see it, the MAIN problem with "transitioning" to the Fw 190 is not so much the narrower band of stall warning, it is that the plane simply won't turn with a Mustang, it stalls sooner because of the lack of wing area. Pilots used to hauling the Mustang around a tight radius will find themselves flipping upside down in the Fw 190 if they try to duplicate that move. It also has a narrower margin of control at the point of stall, so requires immediate corrective action to get back to controlled flight. But once you get used to the plane, you'll find there is adequate warning and ample ability to recover from the stall, or even a spin, given enough altitude.

ICDP
BDG & A2A
Posts: 746
Joined: 22 Jan 2005, 08:52

Post by ICDP »

Hi SD,

Fw190A8 had a take-off weight of 9,479lbs. Full fuel.
Fw190A4-A6 had a take-off weight of around 8,817lbs. Full fuel.

P51D had a take-off weight of approx 10,208lbs. Full internal fuel.
P51D had a weight of 9,611lbs with the rear fuselage tank empty.

Wingloading
Fw190A4-A6 approx 44.76 (full fuel)
Fw190A8: 48.12 (full fuel)
P51D: 41.25 (empty fuselage tank)

Wingloading is in the favour of the P51D and powerloading was in favour of the Fw190A's. The P51D would have a slight edge in turnrate but it would be close enough that pilot skill would be the deciding factor. Obviously the fuel load was not going to be at full when these two types of aircraft met in combat but the general idea was that they were very equally matched unless over 25,000ft.

SD_Research
A2A Major
Posts: 461
Joined: 18 Jan 2005, 11:37

Post by SD_Research »

ICDP wrote:Hi SD,

Fw190A8 had a take-off weight of 9,479lbs. Full fuel.
Fw190A4-A6 had a take-off weight of around 8,817lbs. Full fuel.

P51D had a take-off weight of approx 10,208lbs. Full internal fuel.
P51D had a weight of 9,611lbs with the rear fuselage tank empty.

Wingloading
Fw190A4-A6 approx 44.76 (full fuel)
Fw190A8: 48.12 (full fuel)
P51D: 41.25 (empty fuselage tank)

Wingloading is in the favour of the P51D and powerloading was in favour of the Fw190A's. The P51D would have a slight edge in turnrate but it would be close enough that pilot skill would be the deciding factor. Obviously the fuel load was not going to be at full when these two types of aircraft met in combat but the general idea was that they were very equally matched unless over 25,000ft.
I was referring to the Fw 190 A-8, I should have specified that. Earlier P-51s were also lighter, having only four guns. The P-51A weighed in at about 8,200 lbs in combat trim. Both planes gained weight and power over time.

6297j
Airman First Class
Posts: 64
Joined: 19 Jan 2005, 17:28

Post by 6297j »

Here is a link to a recent obituary of Johnny Checketts who died on April 21st. It mentions his encounters with the FW190 during WWII.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,60-2154676.html

I just thought some of you might find it interesting.

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