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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:23 am 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:25 am
Posts: 75
GREAT IDEA SHOCKWAVE!!!!

Its very good surprise. Fw190 is good choice. I hope Bf 109 will be next :))
Your team make the best plane for Fd2004. It would be cool if Shockwave get FB/PF engine and make from these game real simulator :)

Its nice that You got good suorces and documents including real testing by pilots. Its possible to get scans from these documents ab. perfromance Fw190?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:31 am 
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Airman First Class

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:25 am
Posts: 75
I found first bug :)

In Fw 190 specification there is the same stall speed -118 mph for Fw 190 from A-3 to A-8 which is not true.
http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/sto ... w190a3.htm


Fw 190 A-3 should have 110 mph stall speed clean configuration
http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/sto ... trials.htm


Stall speed should be little incrase from A-3 to A-8 moddels and should'nt be the same :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:22 am 
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Airman

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 13
:D so dreams do come true !! What an inspired choice. This should be awesome.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:24 am 
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A2A Major

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 461
Kwiatek wrote:
I found first bug :)

In Fw 190 specification there is the same stall speed -118 mph for Fw 190 from A-3 to A-8 which is not true.
http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/sto ... w190a3.htm


Fw 190 A-3 should have 110 mph stall speed clean configuration
http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/sto ... trials.htm


Stall speed should be little incrase from A-3 to A-8 moddels and should'nt be the same :)


There is no bug here! :D We treated with RAID insecticide to make sure of it!

To explain:

Stalling speeds are always approximate. Reported stalling speeds will vary with aircraft weight, power on or off, aircraft configuration, and pilot skill. Notice, for example, that the "all-up" weight listed for the A-3 in the test report you cited is "approximately" 8,600 pounds. The stalling speed for the aircraft given in the same report is approximately 110 mph IAS. However, the tested stalling speed is not for an "all-up" weight, it is for the aircraft in normal landing configuration and at a normal landing weight, which would be about 7,500 lbs. This, of course, is because of the expenditure of fuel and ordnance. This is not mentioned in the report because the report was written for and directed to people who already understand that this is standard procedure.

Another thing to consider is that stalling speeds for a specific aircraft are given in knots, miles per hour, or kilometers per hour "indicated" airspeed, whereas in engineering reports they are always given in "calibrated" airspeed. Calibrated airspeed is the indicated airspeed that has been corrected for instrumentation and pitot errors. This error factor can be rather large, depending on the individual aircraft. Also be aware that the error is not the same for each aircraft; you could take ten airplanes fresh off the assembly line, all "identical" and each would have a different error factor.

Now, when you think about the fact this report was written during wartime, while testing a captured aircraft that had instruments which read in kilometers per hour rather than mph or knots, and that the calibration error factor for the difference in calibrated airspeed (CAS) and indicated airspeed (IAS) was probably unknown for this aircraft at the time, you can begin to see why these stalling speed figures are approximate - very much "approximate". The stall speeds for the WoP Fw190 series are exactly in the range for these aircraft and match the data for the airfoil used by these airplanes for the wing area and weights of each airplane in the series.

Now, to address your final point: the stalling speed for any given weight, for any aircraft in the entire series, is identical. They all use the same wing, the same airfoil, with the same wing area. Therefore at a given weight and configuration they will stall at the same speed. However, each aircraft has unique checklist which lists a stalling speed within the expected weight range for that aircraft. For example, the F8, as a heavily-armored aircraft, has a stalling speed listed as 125 mph IAS for a weight of 9,500 lbs. If you for some reason removed weight from that aircraft and got it down to 8,500 pounds, it would stall at 118 mph IAS. What we are talking about is the same basic airframe for all the aircraft, just differing weights. As a pilot, if the manual tells you that your airplane stalls at 125 mph IAS in a clean configuration at 9,500 pounds, and you take off at 11,000 pounds and have an engine problem and need to land right away at an estimated weight of, say 10,900 pounds (your bomb release failed!), it is up to you to figure out what the stalling speed of your airplane is based on the additional weight. Fortunately, we as flight simmers can easily pull down our fuel and payloads menu to see exactly what our airplane weighs at any given time, unlike real Fw190 pilots, who had to rely on what the crew chief and engineers told them. Just take a look at this information for whatever variant you are flying and you will get a good idea of what the stalling speed is for that airplane.

So, for this airfoil, wing area, and aircraft, given instrumentation and testing variances, the stalling speeds are indeed accurate and you may fly with confidence.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:30 pm 
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A2A First Lieutenant

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:39 pm
Posts: 287
Location: CA
I have landed three aircraft with inoperative airspeed indicators during my career as a pilot. Each time of a different type, under different weather conditions and field elevations as well as visibility.

By knowing standard power settings for the aircraft configuration, weight and attitude, there is no major problem, even if power control "assist" stands between you and the direct "feel" of the aircraft.

I taught the following "Emergency Procedure" as a B-47 Flight Simulator Instructor pilot....

Disable or cover over your airspeed indicator in whatever simulation you have, fly a pattern and land. You'll find that if you know your plane, you do not need the airspeed indicator to land, much less need to worry about a variation in stall speeds.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:41 am 
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Airman

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:22 pm
Posts: 49
Oh man, i can't wait to get my hands on this one - the butcher bird is by far my fav plane!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:15 am 
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Airman

Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:28 am
Posts: 38
a few question´s

why is the cockpitpanel so big in shockwaves 190´s while all Photo´s show´s a smaller panel with better side view forward. On the other hand the Mustang cockpit is a dream of forward view and very untrue modelled too


Last edited by kubanskiloewe on Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:27 am 
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Airman

Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:28 am
Posts: 38
[quote="Snuffy_Hadden"]
The 190 is my more favorite Axis aircraft. They can run circles around a 109.


hm, all what I know is that every 109 can turn into a 190 but the 190 could manage faster maneauvers because of it´s better high speed handling and phenomenal rollrate. But in a tight dogfight only a Spitfire or Yak3 can hold it´s own against the 109 !

As Günther Rall (275victories in 109 and ex Natogeneral) said : the 109 was more a fine sword than the raw saw of a 190.


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