Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post any technical issues here. This forum gets priority from our staff.
User avatar
scottb613
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 511
Joined: 28 Dec 2015
Location: KMSV

Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

Just some comments on the pitch instability and establishing level flight... I’ve got the most recent patch - my controllers are calibrated correctly - but I’ll be damned if I can maintain a constant altitude in this aircraft... I’ve been jumping between my other A2A products (Cherokee, Skylane, and Comanche) all of which I can hand fly an altitude - but the Bo - a second of inattention and I’m off on 1000 plus FPM transients... Granted the Skylane and Cherokee have a much more forgiving wing...

Can others hand fly this aircraft well ? LOL - is it me ?

I understand you’ve worked very hard to get the typical Vee waggle into the FDE... While I have no Vee time - my two cents - I would like to see it made a tad easier to maintain altitude otherwise it’s relegated to an autopilot only aircraft - and that sucks a bunch of the enjoyment out of it...

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Last edited by scottb613 on 01 Oct 2018, 06:06, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Caldemeyn
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1082
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Poland

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post Caldemeyn »

What controller, how did you calibrate ( through sim, or 3rd party program) what settings, for realism and controllers ? I don't have much problems flying this plane and i use the ch yoke, calibrated through sim, max sens, small null zones (to account for small center forces) any weather programs ? Any possible hangar problems ?

Fly it like you would a warbird or a heli, constant connection with the plane and small corrections. And remember that the plane is sensitive to CoG changes.

User avatar
scottb613
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 511
Joined: 28 Dec 2015
Location: KMSV

Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post scottb613 »

Caldemeyn wrote:What controller, how did you calibrate ( through sim, or 3rd party program) what settings, for realism and controllers ? I don't have much problems flying this plane and i use the ch yoke, calibrated through sim, max sens, small null zones (to account for small center forces) any weather programs ? Any possible hangar problems ?

Fly it like you would a warbird or a heli, constant connection with the plane and small corrections. And remember that the plane is sensitive to CoG changes.
Hi...

Thanks for responding - yeah - CH HOTAS calibrated via FSUIPC - no null - max sensitivity - works fine with my other A2A products therefore I don’t think it’s controller related...

Aircraft is fixed before every flight while testing - just to be sure...

I hear ya - but it’s not a warbird - even with the pedigree - it’s a traveling machine - I can’t imagine the real aircraft is so difficult to maintain an altitude - granted - it’s far easier in general to maintain altitude in RW aircraft than just about all FS aircraft...

Appreciate the discussion and interest...

Regards,
Scott


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
scottb613
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 511
Joined: 28 Dec 2015
Location: KMSV

Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

If someone is willing to try a test - the Comanche should be the closest in performance to the Bonanza and has a similar wing... I would think pitch stability should be somewhere in the same ballpark... Take the Comanche up and establish a level cruise - then start hand flying some 180 degree S turns - note how it’s easy to control altitude even with the RW characteristic nose drop in the turns... Now do the same with the Bonanza and note the jaw dropping difference - without constantly staring at the AI and VS gauges - you’re off on huge altitude excursions in the blink of an eye... The Comanche seems so much more resistant to these excursions and much more in line to what I’ve experienced in various RW cockpits... The side by side comparison makes it clear... The way it is now I know which one is destined to become a hangar queen and which one I will be flying regularly...

Regards,
Scott


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
maubrenta
Senior Airman
Posts: 157
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Location: Porto Alegre, RS - Brazil

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post maubrenta »

Hi Scott, I don't have any issues on keeping the Bonanza flying level by hand. The aircraft seems just a tiny bit more pitch sensitive comparing to the Comanche, but pretty manageable. Nothing out of ordinary. I've recorded a video to show you how it behaves on my PC. As you can see, the aircraft is pretty stable, just need some minor corrections here and there, like any other airplane.


Hobart Escin
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 474
Joined: 27 May 2012

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post Hobart Escin »

Scott,

I have about 2 hours TT in the A2A Bonanza so far and no, I can't really maintain altitude for more than a few seconds, lol. I'm going to assume that the culprit in my case is my CH Yoke needing considerably more null zone value on the pitch axis. CH Yokes don't center rigidly like others on the market and they have a good amount of play around the center/neutral position. With the pitch sensitivity modeled on the Bonanza, I would have to guess that the CH yoke would have to be more or less perfectly centered unless there is enough null zone set up, otherwise there are going to be spurious pitch signals that will always be set to the flight model. Also, as a fellow FSUIPC user, I'm wondering if it would be better to use A2A's own input configurator to set up elevator trim instead. I will experiment.

The A2A Comanche by contrast is not as nearly pitch sensitive as the BO, and will more readily accommodate a lower null zone value without being too difficult at all to trim off in level flight.


Keep in mind of course that all of this brilliant advice is still theoretical on my part as I can't maintain level flight manually either. I'm pretty sure that A2A has modeled a very high fidelity simulation though. Scott Gentile is a compulsive perfectionist. :wink:

Caldemeyn
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1082
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Location: Poland

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post Caldemeyn »

Set a null zone for the range where the yoke doesn't center. Even in reality controls have slack and losses through the entire mechanism.

User avatar
scottb613
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 511
Joined: 28 Dec 2015
Location: KMSV

Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

Thanks one and all for your further insights...

Yeah - maybe I need to make a video as well - demonstrating what I’m seeing... Thanks for taking the time recording yours - I don’t see a link though ?

Again - my Cherokee, Skylane, and Comanche all fly fine - the Bonanza is the only one - that once properly trimmed for level flight seems to be balanced on the head of a pin just waiting to be upset... I’m light - two passengers - no tips - 3/4 fuel - and some baggage - well within CG...

I chatted with someone who’s owned a Vee for over 10 years - and even with the slight yaw instability - he stated it’s stable in pitch, a good IFR platform, and he hand flies an ILS like it’s on rails... I’ve read numerous RW PIREPS and none of them mention anything about being unstable in pitch - and if they acted like the Bo on my PC - it would would have been mentioned...

I like A2A products - I’m really not trying to be a PITA - just trying to relay my experiences - offering feedback to hopefully improve the product...

Regards,
Scott
Image

User avatar
Fastback
Airman First Class
Posts: 62
Joined: 07 Sep 2013

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post Fastback »

Hi Scott,

I too have had issues with hand flying the Bonanza, for me it was keeping wings level.

For me GA flying is all about hand flying, I try and avoid the autopilot as much as possible.

The V Tail is definitely a different animal to the previous A2A GA products, today on a low level cross country flight the Bonanza was waggling wildly from left to right so much I literally started to feel sick!

As soon as I landed I jumped back into my happy place, the A2A Cherokee!

User avatar
maubrenta
Senior Airman
Posts: 157
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Location: Porto Alegre, RS - Brazil

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post maubrenta »

scottb613 wrote:Yeah - maybe I need to make a video as well - demonstrating what I’m seeing... Thanks for taking the time recording yours - I don’t see a link though ?
https://youtu.be/S5YdALJSQ9E

Jarek
Senior Airman
Posts: 161
Joined: 31 Aug 2018

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post Jarek »

Maybe she is at green/yellow arc boundary, but not in mid/low-green range. Except for zero wind conditions, where stability is quite controllable. Weather engine seems to have big impact on this behavior. My first impression was like there is some amplification effect between ASP4 and Accusim (?) I need to check trick with extended null zones.

User avatar
scottb613
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 511
Joined: 28 Dec 2015
Location: KMSV

Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the responses and the link... LOL - I hear ya on the barf bag...

OMG - that video looked flawless - almost default or machine like - either you’re a far superior pilot or we’re flying two very different aircraft... Your turn rate never varied - rock steady - the ball never moved... I had to do a double take to make sure the autopilot was off... Do you use RW weather - Active Sky ? Just WOW... I’m flummoxed...

Could it be AS ? My other (3) A2A aircraft do just fine and perform realistically in the very same environment - so I’m not giving up AS just to fly this aircraft...

Regards,
Scott


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
maubrenta
Senior Airman
Posts: 157
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Location: Porto Alegre, RS - Brazil

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post maubrenta »

Default "fair weather" on the video, but I fly with AS4 too and don't have any issues hand flying the Bonanza. Depending on how you have your AS settings it certainly can play a role on aircraft behaviour.
If you want to try, this is my AS4 settings: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k8gdl0zdpenhr ... s.zip?dl=0
I have the turbulence effects disabled on P3D settings as well.

Hobart Escin
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 474
Joined: 27 May 2012

Re: Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post Hobart Escin »

Scott, do you have EZDok installed by any chance? It's notorious for affecting aircraft behavior in certain situations. I do and I seem to have better control trimming off on the pitch axis with EZdok disabled. Still testing.

I would recommend disabling all of your P3D non-aircraft addons except for FSUIPC and using only the P3D default clear weather scenario while you test your setup.

User avatar
scottb613
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 511
Joined: 28 Dec 2015
Location: KMSV

Hand Flying Level Flight ?

Post scottb613 »

Hi Mau,

Ok - thanks - I won’t be home to try it until this weekend...

Hi Hobart,

I use ChasePlane and ASP4 on every flight - but it’s certainly a valid test - I’ll start with everything off and see how the symptoms progress as I enable them... Thanks as well...

Regards,
Scott


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

new reply

Return to “Bonanza Tech Support”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest