Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

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robains
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Location: Hillsboro, OR

Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

Post robains »

Hi Scott and A2A crew, wonderful aircraft, best to date, you folks just keep improving.

Love the weather effects and dynamic lights are perfect!

Quick question, how does one disable the bungee system for crosswind landings and takeoffs? I see the documentation talks about the bungee system, but I don't see where I can actually disable the bungee system?

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: Aircraft hasn't killed me yet, but I'm not a Doctor ;)
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Molly - A2A
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Re: Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

Post Molly - A2A »

robains wrote:Hi Scott and A2A crew, wonderful aircraft, best to date, you folks just keep improving.

Love the weather effects and dynamic lights are perfect!

Quick question, how does one disable the bungee system for crosswind landings and takeoffs? I see the documentation talks about the bungee system, but I don't see where I can actually disable the bungee system?

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: Aircraft hasn't killed me yet, but I'm not a Doctor ;)
Hi Rob,

The bungee system is part of the actual aircraft and as such, is not something that can separately be disabled. You should be able to put in control inputs much the same as in other aircraft during crosswind operations. Let us know how you get on. :)

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robains
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Re: Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

Post robains »

Oh ok, guess I didn't understand the manual ... page 22

" In the landing phase, the bungee
system can easily be manually overridden by the pilot when
making crosswind landings, which require cross-control
inputs to keep the nose of the airplane aligned with the
runway centreline whilst preventing the aeroplane from
drifting to the left or right."

How is it overridden ... just the act of providing rudder input will override it? I guess I assumed there was a lever or something.

Cheers, Rob.
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Molly - A2A
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Re: Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

Post Molly - A2A »

Correct, it is overridden by applying enough pressure - in terms of your physical controls, this translates into making normal control inputs. 8)

JonP01
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Re: Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

Post JonP01 »

Hi, I am new to the Bonanza (beautiful rendition of the aircraft - what an achievement by A2A!) and would like a bit more clarification on this. Like the OP I read the "easily disconnect" comment both in the pilot manual and real world literature so of course was looking for the "option". Any time I tried a coordinated turn in my early test flights I would over-coordinate (though yes, it does appear to behave as I would expect in a landing but my time in this sim aircraft is very limited).

But I just want to understand what this system is doing precisely (in the sim). You mention it is "overriden" by applying enough pressure with the physical controls. Obviously with the simulation and a lack of force feedback yoke (let alone force feedback pedals), we are basically stuck with control travel distances that increase in resistance purely with distance travelled from the centre or neutral axis - so by the same amount all the time - regardless of what is actually happening in terms of aircraft airspeed, AoA, etc.

So is this something to even concern myself with given the limitations of simulator controls? It does not sound like we can really simulate the true way this works in the real aircraft and that is obviously no one's fault, though I am curious as to whether this overriding by applying "pressure" is simulated in the event a force feedback yoke is used (I may get one one day).

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Oracle427
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Re: Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

Post Oracle427 »

Think of the bungee system that couples of the aileron/rudder system as a "trim" change where the change varies by the amount of control input through the ailerons and/or rudder pedals. In theory, the rudder would deflect slightly as one deflects the ailerons and vice versa. Of note is that while on the ground the steering system resists rudder deflection, which can also be felt ever so slightly in the yoke as it applies some resistance to the aileron. Keep in mind that it is a very soft coupling in the actual aircraft. In my experience, you see the effect far more with your eyes than you feel it through your hands and feet or in the response of the aircraft. I've flown several different Bonanzas with this linkage and all felt about the same to me.

This is the same issue as with elevator trim changes in flight simulation. In the real aircraft you hold the control surface in place by applying pressure and then trim out the force until control surface needs no more pressure to remain in place at the new neutral trimmed position. In our non force feedback flight sim world, we must gradually move the control back to the neutral position as trim is input to relieve the pressure we are applying to the control as you have already noted.

I have never used force feedback controls, but I assume that they could be made behave like the real world if the simulation models everything correctly. The end result being that the control neutral position will vary based on trim changes. That said, I do not believe it is that simple as the simulation engine likely perceives deflections from the centered neutral position as a deflection of the control surface from the "trimmed position". I'm not sure I am making sense here, but I believe it would take some external software to map things between the flight simulation engine and the FF control unless the sim engine natively accounted for this. Akar has also made a great post about how trim is very incorrectly modeled in pretty much every single flight sim where the trim effectively acts as an extension/reduction of the range of travel of the entire control surface in the trimmed direction.

As for what you need to do when flying the Bonanza or any aircraft in the sim or IRL. None of the above really matters in the end, you fly the Bonanza exactly the same way as any other aircraft. Use the primary flight controls to maneuver the aircraft as required. Don't let the machine fly you around as you are the pilot not a passenger :). Trim out control pressures as required for cruise or long climbs/descents.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

JonP01
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Re: Disable bungee system for crosswind landings/takeoffs?

Post JonP01 »

Thank you Oracle427 for your excellent comprehensive reply.

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