Learning to fly the Connie

The "Queen of the Skies"
flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 405
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post flapman »

trisho0 wrote:
19 Jan 2021, 18:27
I am ready for your new flight plan for LTBA
Okay, lets try it. This is the LOC-Y 23 LTBA.

First some explanation and context. Ignore the G/S needle. It will swing on the display on this approach. Ignore it. Pretend it is broken. Pretend that last week a Greek DC-3 struck the antenna and bent it. We will not use it. I am omitting a lot of regulations and detailed procedures here. This is designed to work for you in flight simulator. It is anyways highly accurate. If you want, you can learn the detailed procedures better.

My flight plan starts at BKZ 117.3. It does not matter how you get to BKZ, or from where. You can take off from LTBA, climb, and turn. Or you can repeat your LTAC-LTBA, that flight was good enough for this attempt.
Just like you did, the radio setup is the same.

Radios
Tune VOR1 to LOC 111.9 (IATA=LOC 23), set Omnibearing 233. Check signal with audio.
Tune VOR2 to VOR 117.3 (BKZ), set Omnibearing 232. Check signal with audio.
DRMI No.2 Pointer set to VOR. I don't care about No.1 Pointer. It is not used here.
Turn on MARKER audio switch, we must hear them.
Set DEV. IND (means "Deviation Indicator," we call VOR switch on bottom of panel) switch to VOR 2.

ST 340 is deleted from your flight.

BKZ
To begin the approach 2 different things must be true. Over BKZ you must be at 4,000ft. Over BKZ there must be less than 90 degrees of turn between current HDG and 233°. If they are both not true you are not allowed to continue the approach... you must delay (HOLDING IN LIEU).
Altimeter is easy to read, to determine amount of turn required find 233 HDG on DRMI or HI (make it easy, look for numbers *24*) if it is on top half of heading circle it is less than 90, if on the bottom more than 90. See example of your video @46:39. You are too low for new flightplan but less than 90° turn, see DRMI.
If you approach BKZ from the south-east (use DRMI or Heading Indicator... not so god Mag Compass or AP), you are not allowed to descend below 5,000ft until you ARRIVE BKZ, so you will always delay. All other directions of approach 4,000ft is safe.

To delay (called *HOLD* here), after reaching BKZ you must turn to heading 052°. Find where 052 is on DRMI and make turn in that direction. When the turn is finished, note the time on the clock. Remember where the second hand is. You will fly HDG 052 for 1 minute. You will know 1 minute has passed when the second hand returns to the same place. This next part involves complex rules I don't want to talk about.. lets try and keep it easy. Look at No.2 pointer on DRMI. It is pointing behind the aircraft. If points to the left turn left, otherwise turn right. Turn in that direction back to heading 232 and then immediately follow the "LOC" needle (it is VOR). You are returning to BKZ now. You have entered the hold.

At BKZ ask the 2 questions again: are there less than 90 degrees of turn to 233? (should always be yes) Am I at 4,000? If both are true you may continue approach. If you are not at 4,000ft yet you must TURN RIGHT to heading 052. You will then fly HDG 052 for 1 minute, then TURN RIGHT back to 232 and back to BKZ, and ask again.

Realize you may be doing all of this and descending at the same time. Regardless, you cannot go below 4,000ft until you start the approach, and you cannot go below 5,000ft if you approached BKZ the first time from the south-east.
When you cross BKZ at 4,000ft and heading about 232 you are allowed to begin approach.

Begin Approach.
Set VOR2 Omnibearing to 234, then switch indicator to VOR1(The Localizer).
Track the localizer like you know how to do.
Begin an immediate descent to 1,425 ft. We must talk of descent rate. Do not dive hard at the ground. But do not delay the descent. The goal is to safely descend as fast as possible from 4,000 ft to 1,425 ft. Think if you were in the back. Would the descent scare you? Not that much! But you cannot delay reaching 1,425 ft. Do not let speed increase in descent, remember Rod's lessons.
Set 2100 RPM, slow to 130 Knots. When you are below 150 knots extend first flaps "First Notch Down". This may take some time because of the descent, remember no less than 21" MP!
Remember to follow the Localizer, GS is broken.
Watch DME Counter. You are waiting for 3.9nm to show. Until distance is less than 3.9 you are not allowed to descend below 1,425ft. Just add a little extra above 1,400ft on altimeter and we'll call it flight simulation legal (not 1,500 ft!). Remember to fly level after descent you will need to add power.

Final Approach
Several things happen at the same time to get ready for final approach. When DME counter shows 4.9 we know we are close (4.9-3.9=1nm).
Check MP is above 24" or set it.
Increase RPM to 2400.
Extend landing gear.
Let airplane slow to 120 knots. It will with gear out.
Wait for 3.9 DME. Keep following that Localizer.
You might hear Marker Beacon, if so you will also see Blue light come on. We are here.
It is time for another check of progress. Are you at 1425ft? Are you on LOC? Is airspeed less than 130 knots? If the answer to any of these is NO you are not allowed to continue.

At 3.9DME and "Outer Marker"
Extend flaps "Approach Flaps"
Descend to 710 ft (700 plus a little). Just like you did the other descent. Safe, but no delay.
Follow Localizer.
Do not let the airplane slow below 120 knots. Use power if you need to.
At 710 ft you look for the runway. Do you see it? If yes, fly to it but remain at 710 ft.
If DME Counter hits 0.6nm and you do not see runway you are not allowed to continue.
If you see amber light and hear Marker Beacon and you do not see runway you cannot continue.

Final Descent
Look for the PAPI on the side of the runway (red and white lights)
You are not allowed to fly below 710 ft until 2 things are both true:
1.) You are lined up with the runway (mostly)
2.) You see at least 2 white lights of the PAPI. If you see all red, you cannot descend! Wait.

It's entirely possible you will never stop at 710 ft. You might see white lights on PAPI (ideal 2 red 2 white) and just continue to landing. The perfect approach will have a continuous descent from 1425 ft to the runway, but it's okay if that isn't true.
When you decide that you will certainly make a safe landing on the runway, extend last flaps, and you are allowed to finally reduce speed below 120 knots.
At 50 feet above runway, less than 24" MP is allowed, smoothly idle, flare, land.

You are not allowed to continue. Approach has error.
If after BKZ you miss altitude or speed targets, or Connie is out of control you will "miss" the approach.
Make a normal climb.
Slowly retract flaps.
Retract Landing Gear.
Increase speed.
Set selector to VOR 2, follow needle.
Climb to 4,000ft.
When you reach 4,000 ft, turn back to BKZ.

Let me know how it goes! You might need multiple tries, but it uses skills you already know...

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

FlapMan, I just did copy\paste your flight plan. That's a long description task I have to print it out and to study in order to follow this I call Lesson1.
I will report it. I may have to replace engines (lol).
Pat

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

OK, just flew FlapMan new flight plan and not a success. I think my next flight I will try differently.

Image

Pat

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 405
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post flapman »

Look's like a decent attempt.
You did a good job finding BKZ the first time. Were you at 4,000 here?
You also did a good job of knowing when you were over BKZ, and starting the correct turn to HDG 052. You did not turn too early or too late.
After HDG 052 you should have made a turn to the right, not the left turn you made. That's what got you lost. No 2. VOR Pointer should have been pointing at tail and to the right, indicating turn to the right.
You missed 2nd half of this step, you did not correct back to BKZ:
Turn in that direction back to heading 232 and then immediately follow the "LOC" needle (it is VOR).
Not sure what happened with your takeoff and climb. This route puts you in 5,000ft direction so to repeat it you must climb, cross BKZ 5,000 ft, and then descend in the Hold to 4,000 before starting approach.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

flapman wrote:
20 Jan 2021, 10:01
Look's like a decent attempt.
===> Not close enough.

You did a good job finding BKZ the first time. Were you at 4,000 here?
===> I was at 5,000 over BKZ beacon and turned to heading 052 for one minute. Then, turned to the left and started descending so at BKZ back again I was at 4,000 and lost.

You also did a good job of knowing when you were over BKZ, and starting the correct turn to HDG 052. You did not turn too early or too late.
===> Way before reaching BKZ I heard an alert sound "Ambar" and later the sound stopped. I don't know why alarm sound.

After HDG 052 you should have made a turn to the right, not the left turn you made. That's what got you lost. No 2. VOR Pointer should have been pointing at tail and to the right, indicating turn to the right.
===> I think I misunderstood the instrument. I was less than 90 degrees on the left side from instrument so, I turned left.

You missed 2nd half of this step, you did not correct back to BKZ:
===> Because I turned left instead of right.
Turn in that direction back to heading 232 and then immediately follow the "LOC" needle (it is VOR).
Not sure what happened with your takeoff and climb. This route puts you in 5,000ft direction so to repeat it you must climb, cross BKZ 5,000 ft, and then descend in the Hold to 4,000 before starting approach.
===> I did take off and followed HDG 232 following your instructions. I think I should do Take-off to heading 296. I climbed to 8,000 ft and at 36nm left I started descending to 5,000 ft and holding altitude until BKZ. After BKZ I turned right to follow course 052 for 1 minute. After a minute I turned back and descending to 4,000 ft. So, at KBZ I was at 4,000 ft. The rest is dreaming lost on Space (lol).
Your Instructions..... If you approach BKZ from the south-east (use DRMI or Heading Indicator... not so god Mag Compass or AP),
What is it ........ not so god Mag Compass or AP),???
I will repeat the flight and to report soon.
Pat

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 405
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post flapman »

trisho0 wrote:
20 Jan 2021, 10:46
===> I was at 5,000 over BKZ beacon and turned to heading 052 for one minute.
Good, you did this correct.
Then, turned to the left and started descending so at BKZ back again I was at 4,000 and lost.
Should have turned to right not left, otherwise correct.
===> Way before reaching BKZ I heard an alert sound "Ambar" and later the sound stopped. I don't know why alarm sound.
I guess this happened very soon after takeoff?
===> I think I misunderstood the instrument. I was less than 90 degrees on the left side from instrument so, I turned left.
Yes, I think perhaps some confusion on steps too.
===> I did take off and followed HDG 232 following your instructions. I think I should do Take-off to heading 296.
Yes. Follow your plan to BKZ. My flightplan starts at BKZ, not at your takeoff point.
I climbed to 8,000 ft and at 36nm left I started descending to 5,000 ft and holding altitude until BKZ. After BKZ I turned right to follow course 052 for 1 minute.
All okay.
After a minute I turned back and descending to 4,000 ft.
But you turned in wrong direction. You turned away from BKZ by accident.
So, at KBZ I was at 4,000 ft.
Nope, you had already missed BKZ and you were already lost in space.
The rest is dreaming lost on Space (lol).
The No. 2 pointer was always showing the direction of BKZ, even after you were lost. Since you missed BKZ you have missed the approach. "Lost in Space"= Connie out of control. Approach is not authorized. Follow procedure "You are not allowed to continue. Approach has error."
What is it ........ not so god Mag Compass or AP),???
I make typing mistake, you show me you already understand procedure.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

FlapMan, This is getting better lessons than Rod Machado, not kidding.
I will redo the flight, it seems to me more clear now. I will see what I get about the 90 degrees differences you are mentioning about in order to do the correct turn direction.
Pat

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 405
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post flapman »

here is the approach flown in the Connie, takeoff from LTBA Rwy36L. It is a good approach to try.

Image

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

FlapMan, first I want to deal with the same flight plan I do have Take-off from LTBQ. I know is a bit longer time.
I just did another flight. After turning back to BKZ I was at 4,000ft heading to 233. I began the approach, switched VOR2 to VOR1 and immediately descending up to 1,425 ft following the Localizer but I never saw DME 3.9nm it was 0.4nm
I had to stop ..... (lol)
I may have missed something, I will read on the instructions over and ever again.
I am curious that following your instructions it is hard to get it. My first flight was better.
Going back to air for a try again.
Pat

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 405
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post flapman »

trisho0 wrote:
20 Jan 2021, 20:01
FlapMan, first I want to deal with the same flight plan I do have Take-off from LTBQ. I know is a bit longer time.
It is okay.
I began the approach, switched VOR2 to VOR1 and immediately descending up to 1,425 ft following the Localizer but I never saw DME 3.9nm it was 0.4nm
I can think of two reasons why this would happen. But, to know which is true, you must be very careful in telling me what happened. How much time passed between switch to VOR2 and you see 0.4nm? Your best guess from memory here will help answer.
I had to stop ..... (lol)
You did not have to stop. I told you about this already.
I may have missed something,
Yes. You missed the approach. Instructions for this situation have been written. They are real instructions (I made a single change).
I will read on the instructions over and ever again.
You will probably need to practice it several times. Last time you could not turn back to BKZ, now you can. Now we have a new problem to solve. We will probably have several other problems to solve between BKZ and the Rwy23 lol.
I am curious that following your instructions it is hard to get it. My first flight was better.
Your first flight failed to find G/S 3.2. Connie lost in space.
Going back to air for a try again.
Plan-G report is fine. Good luck.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

FlapMan, I am reporting here the flight to LTBA. I began with videoing (lol), starting Plan-G illustrating the route and at the very end of video it shows the route Connie flew. So, I did fly not as expected but to see what you find. My concern is why passengers applauded if I didn't fly as it should. I am not ready to continue landing as the passengers liked. I think passengers had a party on flight and someone had a birthday celebration, here it goes ....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OhfKwB ... sp=sharing

I will fly again, that flight I know is not as you want to see.

Patricio

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

FlapMan,
Before repeating the flight plan to LTBA I wonder the distances. According to my original flight plan LTBQ-LTBA it is about 66.10nm total to fly. So, I can start descending when from VOR2 I have a DME count to 30nm to fly directly from BKZ to the airport. This without Circle to fly heading to 052 as you want.
I can be over the BKZ beacon at 4,000 ft instead of 5,000ft altitude if needed.
So, how many more distances nm will be doing the Circle to course 052 and coming back to BKZ? Do I need to know that? Maybe not.
Also, I am trying to understand your instructions as: At BKZ ask the 2 questions again: are there less than 90 degrees of turn to 233? I am flying to course 232 as instructed earlier.
Pat

EDIT:

I flew again and I found the 90 degrees meaning. This time after landing I didn't get Applauses at all, nah! who cares (lol). I tried to follow the instructions as expected. Video soon.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

flapman wrote:
20 Jan 2021, 18:02
here is the approach flown in the Connie, takeoff from LTBA Rwy36L. It is a good approach to try.

Image
Plan-G doesn't have runway 36L from LTBA airport. Please, can you double check so I can give a try with?
I flew starting from LTBQ and I think is more fun to go ahead with your approach flight plan.
Here it is I think what you want to see ...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dLKPTk ... sp=sharing

Pat

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

FlamMan,
Just flew LTBA-LTBA Departure rwy 35L ( I don't have 36L) and I was too high (lol). I will change the plan and see what I get.
Pat

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

I am confused now (LOL).
I flew the plan LTBA-LTBA Circle as:

LTBA Departure rwy 35L
BKZ 117.3/[email protected]
LTBA ILS Loc rwy23 - 111.9/[email protected]

I may have to change the directions but not this time.
There is something on the plan that Connie decided to go to somewhere else (lol).

I better off to come back to the original flight plan LTBQ-LTBA so, tomorrow I give another flight.
FlapMan, I am going bed and tomorrow fresh again.
Rest well my teacher.
Patricio

new reply

Return to “Lockheed Model 049 Constellation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests