Learning to fly the Connie

The "Queen of the Skies"
trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

I am in trouble with Connie flight plan GCFV-GCXO from which I am intended to land ILS in runway 12. Here is the plan and picture showing my intention to do Circle (follow red funny line showing the planned arc).

GCFV
TFN 117.7/[email protected]
FP 420 KHz/248 (@5.9nm)
LRO 116.2/[email protected]
GXCO ILS rwy12/108.7/118 degrees, g/s=3 degrees

Is there a better flight plan? Asking because there is not many beacons around to select.

Image

Pat

TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 914
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post TreeTops »

Pat, when you do instrument flights, the 10 nm radius around the airports (or sometimes larger) are controlled by departure and arrival charts. You dont just make up your own version of an arrival.

Look at the ILS Z or LOC RWY 12 chart.
It says to fly from TFN out bound 293 deg to DME 16 TFN, descending from 4500 ft to 4000.
Then left turn and intercept the ILS localiser at 4000 ft. 108.7
Follow the localiser 116 deg until DME 5.8 and then descend following the glideslope.
Do not go below 4000 ft until you reach DME 5.8.

Its all on the chart.
There is a lot of information on these charts but learn to identify the minimum requirements for your own level of flying.
https://vau.aero/navdb/chart/GCXO.pdf

Image
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
16 Dec 2020, 22:05
Pat, when you do instrument flights, the 10 nm radius around the airports (or sometimes larger) are controlled by departure and arrival charts. You dont just make up your own version of an arrival.

Look at the ILS Z or LOC RWY 12 chart.
It says to fly from TFN out bound 293 deg to DME 16 TFN, descending from 4500 ft to 4000.
Then left turn and intercept the ILS localiser at 4000 ft. 108.7
Follow the localiser 116 deg until DME 5.8 and then descend following the glideslope.
Do not go below 4000 ft until you reach DME 5.8.

Its all on the chart.
There is a lot of information on these charts but learn to identify the minimum requirements for your own level of flying.
https://vau.aero/navdb/chart/GCXO.pdf
Now my mind is confused (lol). First, I appreciate your efforts to teach me and Second, I must be blind.
OK, you know how to translate Charts I am not ready for that. By reading your instructions now is clear. do I have to find help on how to understand charts? I am going to be crazy (lol).
Based on what I learned here now I know what to do. But, what is DME 5.8 mean? I am assuming is 5.8 nm and if so, how I am going to be at 5.8nm if I am already at 4.5nm?
My mind is confused tonight. Tomorrow better.
Trev, thanks many thanks for your help and patience.
Rest well.
Pat

TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 914
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post TreeTops »

Where are you getting 4.5 from?
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
16 Dec 2020, 23:45
Where are you getting 4.5 from?
If I fly from TFN beacons out bound 293 degrees and descending from 4500 ft to 4000 ft and then turning left to intercept ILS, how am I going to be at DME 5.8 if I am already at 4.0?
See now? you got confused on this (lol).
Pat

TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 914
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post TreeTops »

4000 ft is your minimum height. DME 5.8 is your distance from the runway.
Why is this confusing?
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
17 Dec 2020, 00:04
4000 ft is your minimum height. DME 5.8 is your distance from the runway.
Why is this confusing?
Never mind ..... but here is the video talking itself for analysis.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zLyNKf ... sp=sharing
Rest well ...
Patricio

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

I flew a new plan:

EBOS rwy29
DVR 114.95/[email protected]
LCY 322KHz/[email protected]
EGLC ILS rwy27 - 115.15 - 276

DRMI LF1 was fine while the LOC needle was doing nothing so no ILS for landing. I had to land by hand.
What can be my faulty procedure? Video is not uploaded here unless if wanted.
Pat

TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 914
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post TreeTops »

Why did you plan to fly from DVR to LCY?
Did you look at the charts for EGLC?
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
22 Dec 2020, 04:10
Why did you plan to fly from DVR to LCY?
Did you look at the charts for EGLC?
Should I remove DVR from the plan? I added DVR to get DME. The Chart shows ILS DME zero at rwy27 so LOC not to be used. I think I should land on rwy09 after DVOR LON beacon.
Pat

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

Hello guys,
Just flew another flight plan as:

LTAC Esenboga
BAG 113.1/[email protected]
BKZ 117.3/[email protected]
ST 340 KHz/232[email protected]
LTBA ILS/rwy23/111.9/235 - g/s 3.2 degrees

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12EiqPL ... sp=sharing

I wonder how to handle G/S 3.2 degrees? I want to learn/refresh .....etc.
Patricio

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 405
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post flapman »

Hi Pat, hope all is well!
trisho0 wrote:
18 Jan 2021, 23:48
I wonder how to handle G/S 3.2 degrees? I want to learn/refresh .....etc.
Patricio
It is the same pilot error you make in EHAM ILS 36R. You are much better now you follow localizer beam. You can find runway no problem now.. even with other errors. Isn't that nice? Remember when you could not do this? What progress you make!

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

flapman wrote:
19 Jan 2021, 13:28
Hi Pat, hope all is well!

It is the same pilot error you make in EHAM ILS 36R. You are much better now you follow localizer beam. You can find runway no problem now.. even with other errors. Isn't that nice? Remember when you could not do this? What progress you make!
Hi Flapman. Happy New Year 2021. Thanks for reminding me about my EHAM ILS rwy36R error. I am trying to fly near to 1000 ft ALT to intercept Glideslope and looking at PAPI lights. This is all I think I need to know because I don't see how to follow g/s 3.2
I guess g/s 3.2 means -320 feet from Vertical Speed Indicator.
Glad you are here again and yes my flights are much enjoyable. I am still learning ...
Patricio

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 405
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post flapman »

trisho0 wrote:
19 Jan 2021, 14:50
Hi Flapman. Happy New Year 2021.
Thank you!
I am trying to fly near to 1000 ft ALT to intercept Glideslope and looking at PAPI lights.
You had error of 500ft on this goal. 50%
This is all I think I need to know because I don't see how to follow g/s 3.2
I guess g/s 3.2 means -320 feet from Vertical Speed Indicator.
Pat, I want to try something different. In 2006 my mentor wrote:
However, when learning to fly the propliners it is easy to fall into the trap of sticking with what is familiar....The approach with the lowest minima (ILS) is the most difficult to learn.
I think he is right, and I think our thread has shown just how true this was, when written years ago.

You have the following skills:
1) follow localizer
2) read DME
3) maintain altitude

I want to use your skills to have you successfully fly an approach with the Connie. It is called a Localizer Approach. It is a real life procedure. It is legal and safe to fly in Connie to Ataturk RWY 23. We will ignore G/S 3.2 and it's problems. You will learn glideslope later.
I will step out to get some food, and you can think if you want to try it. If you agree, I will give you the flight plan for **LTBA LOC/rwy23/111.9/235**

I think you will enjoy it more.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 655
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

flapman wrote:
19 Jan 2021, 16:45
You had error of 500ft on this goal. 50%
===> Do you mean I should be at 1500 ft right?

Pat, I want to try something different. In 2006 my mentor wrote:
However, when learning to fly the propliners it is easy to fall into the trap of sticking with what is familiar....The approach with the lowest minima (ILS) is the most difficult to learn.
I think he is right, and I think our thread has shown just how true this was, when written years ago.

You have the following skills:
1) follow localizer
2) read DME
3) maintain altitude

I want to use your skills to have you successfully fly an approach with the Connie. It is called a Localizer Approach. It is a real life procedure. It is legal and safe to fly in Connie to Ataturk RWY 23. We will ignore G/S 3.2 and it's problems. You will learn glideslope later.
I will step out to get some food, and you can think if you want to try it. If you agree, I will give you the flight plan for **LTBA LOC/rwy23/111.9/235**

I think you will enjoy it more.
[/quote]
I am ready for your new flight plan for LTBA but I will continue been concerned about the G/S 3.2 Some other airports I learned their landing runway has G/S 3.1 or others degrees but very close to 3.0 so I would think G/S 3.0 is standard but .......how to handle on it or where to look at that 3.0 maybe from the same way as I said earlier? By looking at the VSI ???
Pat

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