Learning to fly the Connie

[TreeTops]

First up, I am happy to see you move around the cockpit and perform your tasks quicker.

Second, your flight plan at the destination makes it difficult for you to fly an instrument flight. Why not delete the NA waypoint and fly GRM to TBS.
Then looking at the charts (VOR DME 31L) you would have downloaded from previous flights, you could descent to 6700 ft and fly the 13.9 DME arc around to the 310 localiser descending to 4500 ft.

Why did you take off and turn right intercepting the flight plan is on the left side? (Assuming terrain wasn't part of your decision).

Why did you change the VOR1/2 selector to VOR2 just as you made it onto the flight plan from TBS to NA? Changing to VOR2 only gives you DME from TBS but with the course set to 310, the aircraft position relative to the flight plan is lost.

You flight plan indicates you fly direct to NA, yet about 40nm from TBS you fly this big dog leg out to the east and end up 1500 ft or less above the ground still 32nm from the airport. None of this is in your flight plan.
Even when you get to showing the TBS indicator at 310 and fly past it turning towards the airport, you never get back to flying the 310 needle into TBS. Its just following the DRMI and VFR above the ground.

Did you notice how fast you were flying during the descent? Did you notice the baby crying in the passenger cabin? This would indicate cabin pressure issues.

How much time did you actually spend flying along your planned flight route? Answer is probably less than 5 minutes and even then you were drifting off course (near UDLS)

Which end of the runway were you intending on landing at?

[trisho0]

First up, I am happy to see you move around the cockpit and perform your tasks quicker.
====> Thanks! Also, Plan-G was recorded at the beginning and at the end of video.

Second, your flight plan at the destination makes it difficult for you to fly an instrument flight. Why not delete the NA waypoint and fly GRM to TBS.
Then looking at the charts (VOR DME 31L) you would have downloaded from previous flights, you could descent to 6700 ft and fly the 13.9 DME arc around to the 310 localiser descending to 4500 ft.
====> I don't see how difficult is this flight plan but yes I can remove the NDB and to fly VOR to VOR. But, I think I will be pass over the landing runway forcing me to do a GA.

Why did you take off and turn right intercepting the flight plan is on the left side? (Assuming terrain wasn't part of your decision).
====> I did turn right side wrong I knew. I saw wrong way the gauge (lol)

Why did you change the VOR1/2 selector to VOR2 just as you made it onto the flight plan from TBS to NA? Changing to VOR2 only gives you DME from TBS but with the course set to 310, the aircraft position relative to the flight plan is lost.
====> I change VOR1 to VOR2 right after passed NA. Is this wrong?

You flight plan indicates you fly direct to NA, yet about 40nm from TBS you fly this big dog leg out to the east and end up 1500 ft or less above the ground still 32nm from the airport. None of this is in your flight plan.
====> I was trying to fly at 2,000 ft altitude to be ready to land smooth. I think I was wrong.

Even when you get to showing the TBS indicator at 310 and fly past it turning towards the airport, you never get back to flying the 310 needle into TBS. Its just following the DRMI and VFR above the ground.
====> Here I was confused on flight. I checked Plan-G and I kept flying as you watched from video.

Did you notice how fast you were flying during the descent? Did you notice the baby crying in the passenger cabin? This would indicate cabin pressure issues.
====> Yes, I noticed that was due to the vertical speed over than 1,000 fpm. I should keep descending near to 500 - 700 fpm

How much time did you actually spend flying along your planned flight route? Answer is probably less than 5 minutes and even then you were drifting off course (near UDLS)
====> I was lost and Plan-G showed me where I was. After that I found that I had to keep the intended direction.

Which end of the runway were you intending on landing at?
====> As you saw on video, runway 31L

Did I properly engage Sperry Clutches? I left Sperry axis indicators as expected right? Note that I had Rudder axis 038 while both compass were at 039

[TreeTops]

Yes the Sperry clutch engaging was much better this time.

Chart for UGTB pg 12, ILS DME or LOC 31L
https://vau.aero/navdb/chart/UGTB.pdf
You should already have these charts downloaded from previous flights.

https://vau.aero/navdb/chart/UDSG.pdf
Unfortunely there is no departure chart available using instruments, only GPS. Having said that, ATC vectors would seem to direct you to maintain runway heading 199 for 5 nm, left turn and intercept flightplan leg from GRM to TBS and maintaining minimum 720 fpm climb @ 150 knots or 972 fpm @ 200 knots. ie try your very hardest to maintain 1000 fpm climb all the way to 13000 ft. There is a 9000 ft mountain range in your path to cross.

====> I don't see how difficult is this flight plan but yes I can remove the NDB and to fly VOR to VOR. But, I think I will be pass over the landing runway forcing me to do a GA.
** The problem with your flight plan is that it does not allow for a full IFR flight. There is no 'Approach" portion of the flight plan, only an almost 'direct to' and a visual deviation to align with the runway. Would you be able to do this flight if there was solid cloud from 4000 to 6000 ft?

====> I change VOR1 to VOR2 right after passed NA. Is this wrong?
** You passed NA at 47:04 in your video. You changed selector to VOR2 at 20:44, 26 minutes earlier.
You can change selector to VOR2 to check the TBS DME and then change back to VOR1 to continue using GRM radial 038 as guidance. Use your instruments to enhance your understanding of where the plane is.

====> Yes, I noticed that was due to the vertical speed over than 1,000 fpm. I should keep descending near to 500 - 700 fpm
** you should have set the cabin pressure to about 5000ft on departure and the set it to 1550 ft on descent with 300 fpm rate of change. This would allow you to climb/descend at 1000 fpm but the cabin pressure only changes at 300 fpm. No more cabin pressure problems, no babies crying.

====> As you saw on video, runway 31L
** What I meant was you landed so far down the runway I was joking that you were aiming for the far end. You can see the PAPI lights all 4 red when you approached the runway too low, and then after you readjusted the lights when all the way to 4 white and you made no attempt to descend to the runway until some time afterwards. You should see 2 red 2 white PAPI lights on the correct glideslope.

[TreeTops]

You could even use the NDB ST 292 to indicate you are past the mountain range and can begin descent. Set that up on ADF2

[trisho0]

Yes the Sperry clutch engaging was much better this time.

Chart for UGTB pg 12, ILS DME or LOC 31L
https://vau.aero/navdb/chart/UGTB.pdf
You should already have these charts downloaded from previous flights.

https://vau.aero/navdb/chart/UDSG.pdf
Unfortunely there is no departure chart available using instruments, only GPS. Having said that, ATC vectors would seem to direct you to maintain runway heading 199 for 5 nm, left turn and intercept flightplan leg from GRM to TBS and maintaining minimum 720 fpm climb @ 150 knots or 972 fpm @ 200 knots. ie try your very hardest to maintain 1000 fpm climb all the way to 13000 ft. There is a 9000 ft mountain range in your path to cross.
======>>> OK, What about changes from the flight plan?

====> I don't see how difficult is this flight plan but yes I can remove the NDB and to fly VOR to VOR. But, I think I will be pass over the landing runway forcing me to do a GA.
** The problem with your flight plan is that it does not allow for a full IFR flight. There is no 'Approach" portion of the flight plan, only an almost 'direct to' and a visual deviation to align with the runway. Would you be able to do this flight if there was solid cloud from 4000 to 6000 ft?
======>>> You are right! I would have to stop this flight plan and to create a different airport for Departure.

====> I change VOR1 to VOR2 right after passed NA. Is this wrong?
** You passed NA at 47:04 in your video. You changed selector to VOR2 at 20:44, 26 minutes earlier.
You can change selector to VOR2 to check the TBS DME and then change back to VOR1 to continue using GRM radial 038 as guidance. Use your instruments to enhance your understanding of where the plane is.
======>>> I found my mistake. I thought I changed the VOR after passing NA.

====> Yes, I noticed that was due to the vertical speed over than 1,000 fpm. I should keep descending near to 500 - 700 fpm
** you should have set the cabin pressure to about 5000ft on departure and the set it to 1550 ft on descent with 300 fpm rate of change. This would allow you to climb/descend at 1000 fpm but the cabin pressure only changes at 300 fpm. No more cabin pressure problems, no babies crying.
======>>> You are right. Departure, I changed the cabin pressure from 5000 to 6295 and I didn't change for Arrival ..... damn!

====> As you saw on video, runway 31L
** What I meant was you landed so far down the runway I was joking that you were aiming for the far end. You can see the PAPI lights all 4 red when you approached the runway too low, and then after you readjusted the lights when all the way to 4 white and you made no attempt to descend to the runway until some time afterwards. You should see 2 red 2 white PAPI lights on the correct glideslope.
======>>> I know about PAPI and VASI. Since I didn't have glideslope working from the Omnibearing gauge I had to land the best way I did.

I flew UDSG-UGTB new plan (not video recorded).

UDSG (Shirak)
GRM 113.4/[email protected]
NA 211 KHz/[email protected]
UGTB (removed TBS) tuned ILS 31L/108.9/Course 312

Results: landed ILS, glideslope showed and for the first time today I used Rudder to align the plane with the center runway. I used the Rudder on ground to do turns on runway. I thought today to give a try and use the Rudder right before touchdown. Rudder did the trick so I think next time I will land with the help of Rudder.
Should be used the Rudder on airborne?
I know we use Elevator and Ailerons. But I never ever tried to use the Rudder after takeoff, cruise, approach and just before touchdown.

[trisho0]

You could even use the NDB ST 292 to indicate you are past the mountain range and can begin descent. Set that up on ADF2

That's good. I will see that to add it. First, I wait for your comments from my last message.
Pat

EDIT: I don't have ST navaids from Plan-G ver 3.2 I may give a try to install the version 4

[TreeTops]

Unfortunely there is no departure chart available using instruments, only GPS. Having said that, ATC vectors would seem to direct you to maintain runway heading 199 for 5 nm, left turn and intercept flightplan leg from GRM to TBS and maintaining minimum 720 fpm climb @ 150 knots or 972 fpm @ 200 knots. ie try your very hardest to maintain 1000 fpm climb all the way to 13000 ft. There is a 9000 ft mountain range in your path to cross.
======>>> OK, What about changes from the flight plan?
** Just what I said about flying 5nm out on 199 deg and then left turn back towards GRM and intercept the GRM-TBS leg.

====> As you saw on video, runway 31L
** What I meant was you landed so far down the runway I was joking that you were aiming for the far end. You can see the PAPI lights all 4 red when you approached the runway too low, and then after you readjusted the lights when all the way to 4 white and you made no attempt to descend to the runway until some time afterwards. You should see 2 red 2 white PAPI lights on the correct glideslope.
======>>> I know about PAPI and VASI. Since I didn't have glideslope working from the Omnibearing gauge I had to land the best way I did.
** PAPI lights are visual. You dont need a glide slope indicator to follow the PAPI lights. This is what I mean when you could see the 4 white PAPI lights right there in front of you yet you didnt respond by descending. You should have responded when the 3 red lights turned to 2 white 2 red lights which indicated you were on glide slope. From this position approx 700 fpm descent will keep you on 2 white 2 red glideslope PAPI lights. If you are following the ILS glideslope this would take precedence over the PAPI lights which are a visual landing system.

UDSG (Shirak)
GRM 113.4/[email protected]
NA 211 KHz/[email protected]
UGTB (removed TBS) tuned ILS 31L/108.9/Course 312
** why did you remove TBS and leave NA? TBS gives you an inbound course if you have it set to 038.
This is what I would do. Start with GRM set to NAV1 and VOR1 set to 038, TBS set to NAV2 and VOR2 set to 038.
Begin with the selector on VOR1. After passing the mountains at 13000 ft and about 35-40 DME TBS, change the selector to VOR2 to verify it is working then change back to VOR1.
Change NAV1 to the ILS frequency and VOR1 to the ILS course. Change the selector to VOR2. Descend to 6700 ft minimum until you are TBS DME 13.9.
When TBS DME 15 right turn and follow the arc maintaining TBS DME 13.9 around to about 140 deg from TBS.
Then right turn onto the ILS and follow that into to the runway.

Should be used the Rudder on airborne?
** Yes you should use it during the turns. Find the bank and slip indicator and look to centre the floating ball during the turns with rudder.

[trisho0]

UDSG (Shirak)
GRM 113.4/[email protected]
NA 211 KHz/[email protected]
UGTB (removed TBS) tuned ILS 31L/108.9/Course 312
** why did you remove TBS and leave NA? TBS gives you an inbound course if you have it set to 038.
This is what I would do. Start with GRM set to NAV1 and VOR1 set to 038, TBS set to NAV2 and VOR2 set to 038.
Begin with the selector on VOR1. After passing the mountains at 13000 ft and about 35-40 DME TBS, change the selector to VOR2 to verify it is working then change back to VOR1.
Change NAV1 to the ILS frequency and VOR1 to the ILS course. Change the selector to VOR2. Descend to 6700 ft minimum until you are TBS DME 13.9.
When TBS DME 15 right turn and follow the arc maintaining TBS DME 13.9 around to about 140 deg from TBS.
Then right turn onto the ILS and follow that into to the runway.
======>>> I think TBS VOR2 set to 310 not to 038

Should be used the Rudder on airborne?
** Yes you should use it during the turns. Find the bank and slip indicator and look to centre the floating ball during the turns with rudder.
======>>> I want to get a better understand with this Rudder. I just started learning the use of Rudder on Airborne, only at before touchdown and after if needed. Also, during turns on airborne I can use Rudder as well? This is new for me (lol) very helpful.
On Airborne I only used Ailerons and Elevator.

Pat

[TreeTops]

======>>> I think TBS VOR2 set to 310 not to 038
** You only need 310 on the final approach. Use 038 to guide you towards TBS until 15 nm out. So between GRM and TBS you are guided on the 038 course accurately.

[trisho0]

======>>> I think TBS VOR2 set to 310 not to 038
** You only need 310 on the final approach. Use 038 to guide you towards TBS until 15 nm out. So between GRM and TBS you are guided on the 038 course accurately.

Confused ... (lol). I think I need only active GRM NAV1 and VOR1, course and heading 038. Following DRMI LF1 until NA is passed then to change NAV1/VOR1 to NAV2/VOR2 which is already set course 310 to follow TBS navaids. I should be able to see the landing runway 31L with a big Rudder on hand.

Remember, EHAM Circle practice? Landed today using Rudder to center runway, voila! Believe it not, first time using Rudder on Airborne. Also, I feel using Rudder instead of Ailerons on airborne turns is not realistic. I feel the Rudder makes funny turns on airborne. I use Ailerons to do turns on airborne.

Maybe, with Sperry AP clutches engaged I can do turns with Rudder with a brief help of Ailerons the Pitch will stop. I didn't test on this yet. Do you think is OK?

[TreeTops]

You do understand that NA is only 3nm from the runway and NA is 3/4 down the length of the ILS approach which would mean about 500 ft AGL (2000 ft). If you fly direct to NA to 500 ft AGL you are not follow any IFR procedure.
What I said before was to not use NA but use TBS and use that VOR to guide you along 038 course towards TBS, Then fly around to the start of the ILS on the 13.9 DME arc. This is all IFR procedures.
Why do you continue to ignore what I am saying? Once again I have written all there is to know about doing this flight and beyond this I am only repeating myself.

[trisho0]

You do understand that NA is only 3nm from the runway and NA is 3/4 down the length of the ILS approach which would mean about 500 ft AGL (2000 ft). If you fly direct to NA to 500 ft AGL you are not follow any IFR procedure.
What I said before was to not use NA but use TBS and use that VOR to guide you along 038 course towards TBS, Then fly around to the start of the ILS on the 13.9 DME arc. This is all IFR procedures.
Why do you continue to ignore what I am saying? Once again I have written all there is to know about doing this flight and beyond this I am only repeating myself.

OK, I will repeat the flight follow this:
Start with GRM set to NAV1 and VOR1 set to 038, TBS set to NAV2 and VOR2 set to 038.
Begin with the selector on VOR1. After passing the mountains at 13000 ft and about 35-40 DME TBS, change the selector to VOR2 to verify it is working then change back to VOR1.
Change NAV1 to the ILS frequency and VOR1 to the ILS course. Change the selector to VOR2. Descend to 6700 ft minimum until you are TBS DME 13.9.
When TBS DME 15 right turn and follow the arc maintaining TBS DME 13.9 around to about 140 deg from TBS.
Then right turn onto the ILS and follow that into to the runway.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, both VOR1 and VOR2 will have entered the same course as 038.
At the time to change NAV1 will be ILS 108.9 and VOR1 to be changed at 312.
Then, change to VOR2 ....... I am lost here because ILS info is stored in NAV1. If I change to VOR2 it will be NAV2 which has a frequency of 113.7

Help!

[TreeTops]

Yes this all correct. You will select VOR1 (ILS settings) when you fly around the 13.9 DME arc at about 140 deg from TBS and then intercept the ILS localiser and glide slope. You know how to do this part.

[trisho0]

Yes this all correct. You will select VOR1 (ILS settings) when you fly around the 13.9 DME arc at about 140 deg from TBS and then intercept the ILS localiser and glide slope. You know how to do this part.

OK, when to change VOR1 to VOR2?

EDIT: never mind. Change to VOR2 to find needed DME and then back to VOR1 to follow on ILS.

[flapman]

I did find an IFR departure for UDSG. To vastly simplify it for Pat, you need to already be at 13,000ft by the time you reach GRM. The Minimum Safe Altitude for your flight plan is 14,500ft.