Learning to fly the Connie

The "Queen of the Skies"
flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 457
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by flapman »

trisho0 wrote: 17 Oct 2020, 10:03So, that's telling me after Pushback I must to double check the Magnetic Compass and Heading Compass as Trev guided me.
No.
You must check the instruments after engine start for every flight. Even if you do not push back. It is the same procedure in Cessna. In PMDG the "compass" instruments are already powered even before engine start. In that airplane they are checked before the doors are closed. But in all airplanes the compasses are checked and set at some point on the ground, before the aircraft moves for the runway. Even if their systems are different.

The last place to check the Compass, DRMI, Heading Indicators is on the takeoff runway in takeoff position. This last check has 2 purposes.
1. Last chance to find instrument failure/error before takeoff.
2. Make sure all instruments and crew agree you have chosen the correct runway for takeoff.

Flight simulator has shown how you can kill an entire airplane of people with mistake 1 ("Connie lost in space"). Many real people have died because of mistake 2.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

flapman wrote: 17 Oct 2020, 10:33
trisho0 wrote: 17 Oct 2020, 10:03So, that's telling me after Pushback I must to double check the Magnetic Compass and Heading Compass as Trev guided me.
No.
You must check the instruments after engine start for every flight. Even if you do not push back. It is the same procedure in Cessna. In PMDG the "compass" instruments are already powered even before engine start. In that airplane they are checked before the doors are closed. But in all airplanes the compasses are checked and set at some point on the ground, before the aircraft moves for the runway. Even if their systems are different.

The last place to check the Compass, DRMI, Heading Indicators is on the takeoff runway in takeoff position. This last check has 2 purposes.
1. Last chance to find instrument failure/error before takeoff.
2. Make sure all instruments and crew agree you have chosen the correct runway for takeoff.

Flight simulator has shown how you can kill an entire airplane of people with mistake 1 ("Connie lost in space"). Many real people have died because of mistake 2.
Great! learning even more, cool! So, after Connie is on the runway to Takeoff I should stop the plane, check instruments and then to proceed with takeoff.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

I found no way to set ADF NDB frequency of 329.6KHz Should be OK to set at 329.5 instead? I tried but never got signal.
My flight plan (Plan-G) was as:

LLBG Ben Gurion
ZFR 115.6/[email protected]
RAM 113.85/[email protected]
NDBA 329.6KHz/[email protected]
LLER Eilat Ramon

Patricio

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 457
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by flapman »

trisho0 wrote: 28 Oct 2020, 15:38NDBA 329.6KHz
Skyvector, PFPX(Navigraph), FSX Flight Planner, Jeppesen... none of these can find this NDB Navaid.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

flapman wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 18:12
trisho0 wrote: 28 Oct 2020, 15:38NDBA 329.6KHz
Skyvector, PFPX(Navigraph), FSX Flight Planner, Jeppesen... none of these can find this NDB Navaid.
Hello FlapMan, Long time not seen I hope you were fine and enjoying with flights. OK, regarding on the NDBA I found it from Plan-G regardless if FSX or P3Dv4 platform. I will make a different FPL then. I flew with PMDG 737 and landed ILS straight on runway. FMC is smart (lol).
Patricio

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 457
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by flapman »

I just flew an ILS in the A2A C-172 with no GPS and no autopilot. Going to fly an NDB approach next.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

flapman wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 19:12 I just flew an ILS in the A2A C-172 with no GPS and no autopilot. Going to fly an NDB approach next.
Aha! you like easy plane with short wings. You can make video so I can learn Cessna too. Nah! ..... I will fly now this one flight plan with Connie:

LLBG Ben Gurion
ZFR 115.60/[email protected]
AQC 326KHz/[email protected]
AQB 113.10/194@20nm
OJAQ Jordan

Pat

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

I have a problem with Connie. Let's said, I am on cruise at 10,000 ft altitude, steady leveled. But now is time to prepare the plane to reduce airspeed. I used to climb up to slow down the airspeed. Is there another way?
Patricio

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 457
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by flapman »

You reduce MAP while staying in level flight. Propeller thrust is less than total drag, and the speed reduces.

You are not flying a simple Cessna, Idle power is not acceptable. Your flight engineer will warn you of this mistake.
If you fly according to "American Urban Mythology" like I do, then your limit is commonly called "running square." You divide the current RPM by 100, and this is your minimum allowed manifold pressure (flight only). So if the propellers are at 1,800 I can reduce MAP no less than 1,800/100=18" MAP to slow. The relevant power settings determine the maximum MAP or BMEP for a given RPM, so there is a narrow band of intake manifold pressure that you are allowed to operate it.

You will plan descents and slowing down to take a long time. It is not a jet, you cannot shove the nose at the ground in an idle thrust dive.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

flapman wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 20:25 You reduce MAP while staying in level flight. Propeller thrust is less than total drag, and the speed reduces.

You are not flying a simple Cessna, Idle power is not acceptable. Your flight engineer will warn you of this mistake.
If you fly according to "American Urban Mythology" like I do, then your limit is commonly called "running square." You divide the current RPM by 100, and this is your minimum allowed manifold pressure (flight only). So if the propellers are at 1,800 I can reduce MAP no less than 1,800/100=18" MAP to slow. The relevant power settings determine the maximum MAP or BMEP for a given RPM, so there is a narrow band of intake manifold pressure that you are allowed to operate it.

You will plan descents and slowing down to take a long time. It is not a jet, you cannot shove the nose at the ground in an idle thrust dive.
Do you mean MAP as MP I mean Manifold Pressure? I am new with AUM and I see now it is very interesting to apply RPM/100. So, if the propellers are at 2200 RPM then FE will warn me about if I set MP lower than 22". If so, then in order for me to reduce the airspeed I would have to reduce RPM probably to 1500 so I can set MP at 15". Cool!
But, is there a way to calculate the time to start reducing the airspeed? I remember, Trev said: To keep it simple, take the height you need to descend, remove the 3 zero's from the end (20,000 becomes 20), multiply that by 3 = 60nm. Now add 10nm for spare, gives a total of 70nm from the airport from 20,000ft.
Then do the descent at about 180 knots.
That's is what I am doing always. But barely get the proper altitude near the runway to land because I get trouble with airspeed. When the airspeed is too high I couldn't engage flaps in Approach because it pitch up quickly. With no Sperry I can control the pitch but I don't think is a good idea. You know, from the Airspeed gauge you find 4 white dots, Flaps, Gear, Approach and Flaps down and all of those dots reflect different airspeed in knots.
Follow me?
Pat

flapman
Staff Sergeant
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Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by flapman »

trisho0 wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 21:46 Do you mean MAP as MP I mean Manifold Pressure?
Yes, also known as Manifold Absolute Pressure or in the Spitfire Boost.
I am new with AUM and I see now it is very interesting to apply RPM/100.
Rod Machado can teach you about it in the FSX default Beechcraft Baron.
So, if the propellers are at 2200 RPM then FE will warn me about if I set MP lower than 22". If so, then in order for me to reduce the airspeed I would have to reduce RPM probably to 1500 so I can set MP at 15". Cool!
You can see me do this in my EHAM ILS landing. The A2A FE will not warn you, as he does not follow this operating myth. He will warn for excessive errors. It is a somewhat controversial and complicated topic. Many articles written by both real life and simulator pilots on all sides.
But, is there a way to calculate the time to start reducing the airspeed?
Not really, it is another very complicated topic.
I remember, Trev said: To keep it simple, take the height you need to descend, remove the 3 zero's from the end (20,000 becomes 20), multiply that by 3 = 60nm. Now add 10nm for spare, gives a total of 70nm from the airport from 20,000ft.
Then do the descent at about 180 knots.
That's is what I am doing always. But barely get the proper altitude near the runway to land because I get trouble with airspeed. When the airspeed is too high I couldn't engage flaps in Approach because it pitch up quickly. With no Sperry I can control the pitch but I don't think is a good idea. You know, from the Airspeed gauge you find 4 white dots, Flaps, Gear, Approach and Flaps down and all of those dots reflect different airspeed in knots.
Follow me?
Pat
Nobody said flying a Constellation was easy :D That's why it's fun, and why it took 3-5 people to do it, and they all got paid lots of money. They still sometimes crashed. Trev's rule is simple, it will get you from A to B somewhat safely, but for this airplane it can leave a lot to be desired.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

FlapMan, thanks for your professional comments and answers really I appreciate that so much.
I want to learn on when/how to work with Autopilot Servo Speeds (Rudder, Aileron and Elevator). I don't know very much about but when Connie on cruise gets trouble with the wind I experimentally play with the Rudder AP Servo Speed control. Apparently works for me but not really noticeable. Do you use that AP Servo controls often?
Pat

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 457
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by flapman »

From page 129 of the A2A L-049 manual:
2. See that speed control valves are open.
Set at 3 if best setting is not known.

NOTE: The speed valves control the rate at which the
automatic pilot moves the controls and reacts to bring the
airplane back on course. In general, the speed valves should be
left open unless there is oscillation present in which case the
valves should be closed sufficiently to stop the oscillation.

CAUTION: Turning any of the three speed valves to its OFF
position locks the corresponding control surface in whatever
position it happens to be and should be avoided.
I was finding that the elevator and rudder were moving too much (aircraft pitches up and skids) during turns, and tried to correct by adjusting the speed valves.. but I'm no longer sure this is the correct action. I intend to experiment with this on my next flights. Set it to a value.. see how I like it.. change it.. so how the system reacts to the change. One of many things to do on a 7+ hour flight.

If I can give you one piece of feedback on your Sperry use. I often see you engage the Sperry while the two direction barrels are not matched, resulting in an immediate turn at low altitude. I know this is how modern autopilots work, but I don't think that's how this is meant to be used, and it ends up looking quite aggressive, especially at the low altitude it occurs at.

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 457
Joined: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by flapman »

I want to add this topic to the discussion to help not just trisho0, but to those of you spectating this thread.

Months ago he could not even use the DRMI to find various VOR and NDB stations (in fact, didn't know what those were), but has now progressed to being able find these stations via homing. I know a lot of other users are reliant on homing in aircraft such as the Constellation after watching various youtube videos of aircraft such as this. It's usually pretty hard to put into words just what homing looks like, and why it's a problem.

But a few seconds at the end of Pat's latest, and hour long, video show via Plan-G the outcome of such a practice, and how it leads to a lack of control of the flight path of the aircraft. It's not good enough in a Constellation to just point the nose at the thing you want to reach. In fact, it's not good enough in a Cessna 172 either. This was the lesson that Rod Machado was trying to show you in the FSX VOR Lesson.

Here it is in graphical form, taken directly from your latest flight.

Image

Pat (and others), until you can progress on this skill, you will have a great deal of problems with Constellation flying. Many of the real life procedures mandate the location of the aircraft, not simply the direction of it's nose relative to magnetic north. Learning the difference is important.

You can only home towards a station, you cannot home away from a station that is behind you. Many procedures mandate controlling the aircraft position with a navaid behind the aircraft. Until you can track specific courses, you cannot use these procedures. This is why you had so many problems with the later landings. You only pointed the directions that the procedures mandated. But those are often mandated courses, not mandated headings.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 751
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 11:43

Re: Learning to fly the Connie

Post by trisho0 »

flapman wrote: 29 Oct 2020, 23:46 I often see you engage the Sperry while the two direction barrels are not matched, resulting in an immediate turn at low altitude. I know this is how modern autopilots work, but I don't think that's how this is meant to be used, and it ends up looking quite aggressive, especially at the low altitude it occurs at.
I don't understand "two direction barrels"
Pat

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