Learning to fly the Connie

The "Queen of the Skies"
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trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Learning to fly the Connie

Post trisho0 »

[Moderator note: topic split from this thread as requested.]

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alan CXA651 wrote:
24 Jul 2020, 00:53
Hi trisho0.
The photo of the engineers lower panel , and part of top panel , shows something i have not seen before .
1/. when was the screenshot taken , I.E. how long after starting the engines .
2/. was you or the engineer controlling the engineers panel.
3/. engines 2 and 3 show oil cooler flaps almost closed.
4/. fuel flow gauges not showing any fuel flow.
5/. engine cyl temps are not showing any temps , so if engines have only just started , take another screen shot after they have got to operating temp .
6/. manifold gauges not showing any reading , your RPMs need to be raised a little bit.
7/. engines 2 and 3 fuel pressure lights on the upper engineers panel are on , could you do a screen shot of upper panel as well as lower panel.
8/. could you do a screen shot of shift+4 please.
9/. how are you controlling the aircraft , I.E. do you go through FSUIPC or direct from the sim , and what controllers do you use , i have CH yoke/rudder peddles/and two quad throttles going through FSUIPC and some controls set up via A2A connie configurator.
regards alan. 8)
1/. The screenshot taken were right after starting engines.
2/. I don't use FE, I control the panel.
3/. Should be open the oil cooler flaps or closed? How to open or close?
4/. What action should be done?
5/. The engines just started.
6/. To raise RPM up is done via Propeller Governor Switches, right?
7/. The movie clip is posted revealing the panel.
8/. The movie clip is posted showing such.
9/. I don't touch FSUIPC but registered. I use KBsim joystick controller,

I made a movie clip showing how I start Connie engines and I might be doing something wrong? Here it goes ...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RDHtm_ ... sp=sharing

flapman
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 381
Joined: 10 Oct 2013

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post flapman »

That looks to me like a normal FE panel for immediately after engine startup.

Alan, some thoughts:
4. I don't expect to see measurable fuel flow at 1,000 RPM.
5. His CHT selector knob is in the OFF position. He hasn't selected any cylinder bank to display.
6. Also expect no MAP indication at 1,000 RPM
7. Not surprised by low fuel pressure at 1,000 RPM with no electric boost pumps active.

Just from loooking at that FE panel... and assuming all other engines are stable at ~980 RPM... I would speculate that engine #2 has carbon buildup on the spark plugs. I would attempt to run it up to about 1,500 RPM (with the throttle) for something like 20 seconds to see if I could burn it off, then reduce back to 1,000 RPM (with the throttle) to see if it's running smooth.

trisho0, your startup looks fine.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post trisho0 »

Tried another FPL from LPPS to LPMA to show my engines starting and I had a problem with engine 4 but resolved, I forgot to activate the Auxiliary Fuel Pump switch 4 (lol). Did I miss something on this flight? I stop recording this and I know forgot to turn Battery Off.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gTp-4P ... sp=sharing

alan CXA651
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 2228
Joined: 15 Mar 2016

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post alan CXA651 »

Hi .
Flapman , i was asking trisho0 a question as to how long after start up when pic taken due no CHT reading , he answered that question , you dont need to touch the CHT switch to get a reading after starting , but you need to touch that switch to get more info on each engine once engines are running to check all is well .
The CHT switch if i remember correctly , checks the other cyl head banks on each engine.

trisho0 , i have been watching your videos , and your start proceedure is wrong for following reasons, if career mode was on you would get slated for allowing pax onboard in a cold cabin .
You are also leaving the inertia/primer/engage switchs on to long and could cause problems further down the line .
I suggest you watch scotts intro video on the connie on the purchase page , also i suggest you select the engineer to set things up while sat at his station and observe what he does , there is a lot to do on the connie , and when i flew on vatsim , i tended to activate the engineer , so i could concentrate on the flying and radio comms and navigation .
regards alan. 8)
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TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 869
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post TreeTops »

The Cockpit light is up near the battery switch if you wish to lighten the place up a bit.
Suggested normal engine start is 3, 4, 2, 1.
I did not see any fire extinguisher selections prior to engine starts in your video.
The Cowl Flaps should be open prior to starting. Not sure if you are actaully following the checklist???
When switching the mags to on, you should be shifting your view immediately to the oil pressure gauges. You have 10 seconds of running engine to get pressure up before a possible shutdown. Looking at the view up the front while the engine is starting up is not focusing on the task at hand.

There is plenty going on getting everything going but keep practicing and you will quickly get up to speed.
Now that you are familiar with most of the cockpit it is a good time to go through the manual thoroughly and things will make more sense now.
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post trisho0 »

alan CXA651 wrote:
27 Jul 2020, 00:55
trisho0 , i have been watching your videos , and your start proceedure is wrong for following reasons, if career mode was on you would get slated for allowing pax onboard in a cold cabin .
You are also leaving the inertia/primer/engage switchs on to long and could cause problems further down the line .
I suggest you watch scotts intro video on the connie on the purchase page , also i suggest you select the engineer to set things up while sat at his station and observe what he does , there is a lot to do on the connie , and when i flew on vatsim , i tended to activate the engineer , so i could concentrate on the flying and radio comms and navigation .
regards alan. 8)
I never touched the Career option so it is Off. I didn't know that I have to allow pax getting on board with cabin temperature controlled. I will check on that with the Manual.
I turn Inertia On and wait 20 seconds, Primer On and wait 2 seconds and I engage following the Magnetos. When the Engage switch turns automatically Off and the engine cranked, I proceed moving the Mixture Level up and turning Primer switch Off. To finish the starting engine in progress I activate the Generator switch. Then, I proceed with the next engine to setup accordingly and same routine.
I feel more challenge do not using FE but I will watch Scotts video and also I will check again to see what the FE does, good idea.
Thanks for your view and great Help.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
27 Jul 2020, 03:16
The Cockpit light is up near the battery switch if you wish to lighten the place up a bit.
Suggested normal engine start is 3, 4, 2, 1.
I did not see any fire extinguisher selections prior to engine starts in your video.
The Cowl Flaps should be open prior to starting. Not sure if you are actually following the checklist???
When switching the mags to on, you should be shifting your view immediately to the oil pressure gauges. You have 10 seconds of running engine to get pressure up before a possible shutdown. Looking at the view up the front while the engine is starting up is not focusing on the task at hand.

There is plenty going on getting everything going but keep practicing and you will quickly get up to speed.
Now that you are familiar with most of the cockpit it is a good time to go through the manual thoroughly and things will make more sense now.
Interesting, I will check that light switch. The suggested sequence engine start 3421 is what I do, well.... sometimes I do differently. I will follow your recommendation.
Fire Extinguisher? Am I supposed to take care about? I will check the Manual.
At the very beginning learning about Connie procedures I activated couple of times the FE from the Menu (Shift+3) and I saw the engineer moved the Cowl Flaps after I finished with the engines start. Then I stopped using FE and I was moving the Cowl Flaps by myself. I had a couple times 2 engines smoked on airborne because I didn't close the Cowl Flaps. I learned this thanks to AlanCXA651, thanks again Alan. I will start with FE first before I start cranking engines. Maybe FE closes the Cowl Flaps before setup the engines. I don't follow Checklists but I will print it out, good point.
After switching Magneto On I never view the Oil Pressure Gauges. Ten seconds of running engine to get pressure Up; what action is needed if a shutdown occurs? I think I should turn OFF Magneto, Primer, Engage and Inertia to start over again. But corrective actions if the Oil pressure gets trouble I will be in a dark so if it shutdown then start engine crank over again as explained.
I am still practicing and learning Connie, I love it. The manual yes, reading over and over again I learn more and more.

alan CXA651
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 2228
Joined: 15 Mar 2016

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post alan CXA651 »

Hi trisho0.
Practice makes perfect , so they say , from your video i saw , the inertia was on more than 20 secs , it should take about 15 to 18 secs to get to max run speed , primer on followed by engage , count six then ignition on , once eng fires up , release primer and engage switches and push mixture to rich.
The idea for moving the fire handle to the engine you are starting , is to save time if it catches fire , as seconds count in an emergency .
Also the cabin temp in shift + 3 , if it says cold , put GPU power on the aircraft , sometimes thats all it needs , sometimes you need eng 4 to run the cabin temp up with the aircon or if its says hot on shift + 3 you might need to run both outboards to get cabin temp down to a comphy level for the pax , once cabin at the right temp you might be able to shut the engs down prior to boarding , if eng 4 is the only one running you might have to keep it running in extreme hot weather , while they board.
like scott says in the intro video , no two flights are the same .
regards alan. 8)
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TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 869
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post TreeTops »

I seem to remember it being posted a year ago or so, that it wasnt uncommon to have the engines running while the passengers boarded, as it was just accepted in those times. Just imagine if they tried to get today's population to do that now!!!
So if the temperature is pleasant, chances are engines 1 & 2 would not be started during loading, but if it was cold or hot dont be afraid to get the plane started and the cabin all nice and comfy for the passengers prior to boading.
Also, dont be afraid of the career mode. Its just a bit of fun added in to give you good incentives to work towards being the best you can be for the passengers. But, for the initial learning of the plane it is probably best to leave it off as it can be a distraction. Just keep in mind when you are learning the plane and reading through the manual, what will keep the passengers happy and try to incorporate these practices while you are learning.
(oh and you never really stop learning :) )
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post trisho0 »

alan CXA651 wrote:
27 Jul 2020, 16:49
Hi trisho0.
Practice makes perfect , so they say , from your video i saw , the inertia was on more than 20 secs , it should take about 15 to 18 secs to get to max run speed , primer on followed by engage , count six then ignition on , once eng fires up , release primer and engage switches and push mixture to rich.
The idea for moving the fire handle to the engine you are starting , is to save time if it catches fire , as seconds count in an emergency .
Also the cabin temp in shift + 3 , if it says cold , put GPU power on the aircraft , sometimes thats all it needs , sometimes you need eng 4 to run the cabin temp up with the aircon or if its says hot on shift + 3 you might need to run both outboards to get cabin temp down to a comphy level for the pax , once cabin at the right temp you might be able to shut the engs down prior to boarding , if eng 4 is the only one running you might have to keep it running in extreme hot weather , while they board.
like scott says in the intro video , no two flights are the same .
regards alan. 8)
I thought my Inertia time was 20 seconds per engine start, I count like 21, 22,23, up to 30 then again same counting (20 sec) and Primer On. 15 seconds is more easy so I will try again and count 6 prior Magnetos.
After engine fires up I push Mixture and then Primer Off and Generator On. I have seen this procedure in somewhere from Youtube.com , in A2a Forum, don't remember. So, should I turn Primer Off first before Mixture? I think FE does the same procedure not sure, I will check again.
Moving Fire handle before start engine? Interesting ...
Cabin temp checking with the Shift+3 Menu, cool but, I thought we can turn GPU power Off after 2 engines cranked up. OK, I will leave GPU powered On until all engines are running and the Cabin temperature is normal 20 degrees is good.
I found Pax will not proceed for GSX (FSDT Ground Services) if the engines still running.

I found from Connie Manual page 129 about Autopilot Operation as:

AUTOPILOT OPERATION
1. Trim airplane to fly “hands off.”
2. See that speed control valves are open.
Set at 3 if best setting is not known.

Where is the speed control valves to see if they are open?

I appreciate so much your help on this really is wonderful.

TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 869
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post TreeTops »

The speed controllers are shown in pg 115, #3 item on the main instrument panel to the left of the autopilot. By default they are set at 3.
So if you had turbulence and the plane was shifted off course, these knobs control the speed for which the autopilot will bring the plane back to normal. A setting of 1 would be a softer/slower response and a setting of 5 would be a harder/faster response.
This is the same when you adjust the heading, or climb on the autopilot. For instance, when you have levelled out and want to maintain altitude, you could reduce the pitch speed to 1 to soften out the up/down motion for the passengers while they eat their fancy food in the back. A pitch speed of 5 might cause a spillage when taking a drink, especially those at the rear of the plane. The same could be said for the rudder response slowing down so those in the rear dont feel like they are skidding from side to side for the whole journey.
The plane is full of controls, the manual is full of instruction, but it is up to you, the captain, to make the trip as comfortable for the paying passengers as possible. :)
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
27 Jul 2020, 19:25
The speed controllers are shown in pg 115, #3 item on the main instrument panel to the left of the autopilot. By default they are set at 3.
So if you had turbulence and the plane was shifted off course, these knobs control the speed for which the autopilot will bring the plane back to normal. A setting of 1 would be a softer/slower response and a setting of 5 would be a harder/faster response.
This is the same when you adjust the heading, or climb on the autopilot. For instance, when you have levelled out and want to maintain altitude, you could reduce the pitch speed to 1 to soften out the up/down motion for the passengers while they eat their fancy food in the back. A pitch speed of 5 might cause a spillage when taking a drink, especially those at the rear of the plane. The same could be said for the rudder response slowing down so those in the rear dont feel like they are skidding from side to side for the whole journey.
The plane is full of controls, the manual is full of instruction, but it is up to you, the captain, to make the trip as comfortable for the paying passengers as possible. :)
That is 3. Autopilot Servo Speeds so, from this knob is where we adjust as needed but default is 3, right?
My passengers eaten out before boarding so leave Belts lights On all the journey (lol). Very interesting on adjusting Speed Controller due to turbulences is very common on flight. I will keep in mind that to practice that as well. Many thanks for your help on this.

alan CXA651
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 2228
Joined: 15 Mar 2016

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post alan CXA651 »

Hi trisho0.
I put the GPU on and let the engineer set the aircraft up , while he`s doing that i am tuning the nav equipment for the first freq`s required on route , and check my flight controls , by removing the 3 hydraulic locks/power assist levers , to make sure i have manual control of the ail/ele/rud , in the event i had a hydraulic failure in flight , this has not happened yet , but you never know .
The controls without hydraulic`s is limited , and yes i did a simulated hydraulic failure in flight , and managed to fly and land the aircraft in that state , it`s hard very hard , and you need to think ahead for where you wish to go as the aircraft responds very sluggish in this state.
Once i have tested the controls for movment , i then re-engage the 3 control lock`s/booster control levers.
I also leave the GPU on while i start eng`s 3 and 4 , then remove the GPU before i start eng`s 2 and 1 , reason for this is the proximitry of the GPU to eng 2 prop`s , and i do this for the simulated safty of the ground crew .
Most of the time the cabin temp get`s to a comphy level for pax before i get to the eng start up , i cannot remember the exact temp , but i believe its 21 deg , but if in a very cold or very hot weather conditions , then i have had to fire up eng 4 , and sometimes i also needed eng 1 as well to get cabin to correct temp , once temp in cabin is correct , i will shut down either both or just eng 1 depending on the temp outside , then send for pax.
regards alan. 8)
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trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post trisho0 »

Hi Alan, I flew same FPL which it gives me short time flying in order to practice more for take-off and landings. I want to stop using Shift+6 which is the Radios allowing me to press NAV and the AP is automatic. When I reach the expected Altitude of 4K AGL I turn the GPS switch On and from Radios I press NAV (AP becomes activated automatically) and finally pressing ALT. The plane follows the GPS magenta nicely. If I stop using such Radios from Shift+6 I wonder how to activate NAV with Connie. I feel the use of the added Radios that came with Connie is not real for me. GPS is a good help but if I don't find the NAV switch then Connie has a limitation forcing the Captain to trim all the journey? The created FPL doesn't have radios frequency to enter but the Course heading I enter in the Omnibearing instrument. I can fly by hand but I have to follow the GPS magenta. I am NAV now (lol).
I learned engineer handle the FE Panel and I watch that. After landing and parked I was thinking if the engineer shutdown engines or I have to do that. For a moment nothing else happened so I decided to start turning Off the Smoking and Belts following with all lights and suddenly the engineer started moving the Mixture levels and Generator switches. Also, closing the Cowl Flaps even he turned the Battery Off at the end. Damn, he left me in a dark (lol). I have to say I forgot to check the Fire system because I was more alert on what the engineer was doing with the FE Panel. Later I will try again but not with Fire system yet. I want to see if I can handle Connie without the added Radios (Shift+6).
I am getting late tonight, rest well and thanks for all. Patricio
Last edited by trisho0 on 28 Jul 2020, 23:08, edited 2 times in total.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 615
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Engine RPM mismatch after startup

Post trisho0 »

Hi Trev, Do you use SHIFT+6 to call Radios and with GPS for flying Connie? Patricio

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