Navigation

[Alan_A]

the FAA's Instrument Flying Handbook, all available through Amazon.

That can be downloaded for free from the FAA's Aviation Handbooks & Manuals page (fwiw).

Ah, of course! Knew that. Sorry, am getting interference from the cold medication... not to mention the pre-Connie buildup...

Amazon version is a dead-tree edition, for those who want one to carry around and leaf through, as opposed to boot up...

[bobsk8]

Learn how to Navigate like everyone that has a Private Pilot's license has to do. That is what makes aviation and flying interesting, you have to learn something. to do it.

Dead Reckoning... yes. Pilotage is going to be tougher for an aircraft such as this.

One can use VOR and/or NDB navigation. DME is also available.

This is exactly what we were doing prior to GPS in General Aviation. Once I used LORAN - otherwise mainly VOR to VOR with the possibility of an NDB approach.

When I got my license, in 1978, there was VOR, NDB and pilotage and that was it. To me, using a GPS, takes all the thinking out of it.

[ionasm]

I think I did not phrase my question correctly (I am familiar with VFR, VOR navigation, etc and one can always "cheat" in FS using a GPS or FSNav or whatever if he is too lazy to navigate). My inquiry was referring to how they used to navigate back then.

And to expand; lets say you have to cross the Atlantic. How would you do that properly in this aircraft (without "cheating")?

[ResidentEVO]

Learn how to Navigate like everyone that has a Private Pilot's license has to do. That is what makes aviation and flying interesting, you have to learn something. to do it.

Dead Reckoning... yes. Pilotage is going to be tougher for an aircraft such as this.

One can use VOR and/or NDB navigation. DME is also available.

This is exactly what we were doing prior to GPS in General Aviation. Once I used LORAN - otherwise mainly VOR to VOR with the possibility of an NDB approach.

When I got my license, in 1978, there was VOR, NDB and pilotage and that was it. To me, using a GPS, takes all the thinking out of it.

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita. ... 02_14.html

In 1975, 1,252 GA pilots were killed in GA aircraft in the USA.

In 2013, it was 391.

GPS says you're welcome for making flying outrageously safer.

[speedy70]

Pilots during the war flying transatlantic used a bubble sextant and reduction tables.Similair to my sextant and sight reduction tables used yachting.The bubble sextant was to help the user keep the sextant level in an aircraft.

Cheers Chris

[bobsk8]

Pilots during the war flying transatlantic used a bubble sextant and reduction tables.Similair to my sextant and sight reduction tables used yachting.The bubble sextant was to help the user keep the sextant level in an aircraft.

Cheers Chris

I flew up to Thule Greenland a couple of times in a C 118, and talked my way into the cockpit during the flight. The navigator showed my how they used the sextant and a glass round window at the top of the cockpit so he could site on the stars and figure out where we were. At first I thought they were kidding me.......

[speedy70]

Well that far north a magnetic compass is useless so you have to use celestial navigation.

Magnetic north is very near to Thule,Greenland,it is in north east Canada.

Cheers Chris

[Great Ozzie]

To me, using a GPS, takes all the thinking out of it.

Sometimes, you want that -- i.e. less can be more.

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita. ... 02_14.html

In 1975, 1,252 GA pilots were killed in GA aircraft in the USA.

In 2013, it was 391.

GPS says you're welcome for making flying outrageously safer.

If only it were so!

[speedy70]

Rob
I was always told to plot on either "dead reckoning or estimated position until the next fix.
This was plotted on the chart.
To this day with GPS and autopilot etc I still do that on a yacht.A lot of people laugh but they will not when there is a power failure such as a short or a battery failure.Yes I do carry a torch as well.
Cheers chris

[Scott - A2A]

Here's a pict of GPS mount:


Scott.

[Roadburner426]

GPS is pretty handy with learning how to fly as well though. For those of us that don't have a pilots license it is good to see a lot of the things that in FSX are usually transparent. The GTN in particular is very handy for fuel planning, and learning how to make proper decents in the aircraft since it has calculators for that type of stuff. Not only that the RNAV capability goes a long way to showing the different proper approaches to runways that do not have radio approaches. That is something that up until having the GTN I am just going off of charts, and doing a bunch of guess work since you cannot input the points in to the stock FSX flight plans (to my knowledge). So while GPS can be used to be lazy it is a very powerful learning tool depending on how you use it. I spend quite a bit of time on Skyvector looking at the charts building flight plans from one place to another, looking at NOTAMS, and trying to abide by various airspace requirements.

EDIT: That is one old looking GPS unit Scott, like an old Macintosh computer from the 80's. Perfect for the Connie at least. Looks like some of the old GPS units I have seen in aircraft for sale.

[speedy70]

I think it is the KLN90.

Cheers Chris

[Great Ozzie]

Rob
I was always told to plot on either "dead reckoning or estimated position until the next fix.
This was plotted on the chart.
To this day with GPS and autopilot etc I still do that on a yacht.A lot of people laugh but they will not when there is a power failure such as a short or a battery failure.Yes I do carry a torch as well.
Cheers chris

The pilot’s weather philosophy has two parts. The first is skepticism. Being a weather skeptic is an important ingredient of the formula for living to a ripe old age. The second part is always to have an alternate plan of action. (emphasis mine) These two keys, skepticism and alternate action, are the foundation of it all. Robert Buck - Weather Flying.

I won't be one of the ones laughing Chris. A "well done," yes... but never laughing.

-Rob

[Potuslancer]

I'm a purist at heart when it comes to operating vintage aircraft in a
sim and wouldn't consider using a GPS to get from point A to point B
but I wonder if, as a compromise between the modern day navigation tools
like a GPS and NDB and VOR navigation of days past, would the old C-IVA INS that we use in the Concorde X and the old RFP 742 amongst others be an option?


Just a thought.

[AKar]

I love sim-flying in US/Canada because there is a huge number of airways that run via VOR or NDB beacons even today. While I typically put my route into my trusty GTN650 for situational awareness, I couple my instruments to ground-based aids almost all the time. It is just way more fun, and not difficult at all: sometimes it is fun actually to locate a point-of-interest by estimating some intersecting radials, or NDB bearings, or radial+DME readings. It is very easy to get one very closely to a specific spot over ground with SkyVector accuracy alone, while of course the fact that VOR radials don't exactly match the magnetic headings causes some error.

If a sim pilot does not know how to navigate using VORs, NDBs and so on, I hugely recommend that he takes this opportunity to learn this way of flying! Only because it is fun! It also gives a better view into flying with the GPS, as many if not most routes and procedures can be flown using both the conventional aids and "the angels".

I think it is the KLN90.

Cheers Chris

Yep. It still is fairly common unit in small airplanes and non-FMC turboprops for instance - or at least was when I saw them more a few years back. It also came standard with better-equipped GAs before Garmins took over. I recommend trying it - it is well simulated and free. It brings a nice exercise on navigational SA, as it may be so that not many have sim-flied with any GPS or INS without the magenta line before.

-Esa