Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

The "Queen of the Skies"
ste55
Airman
Posts: 13
Joined: 04 Nov 2017

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post ste55 »

Hi cflord,

as far as I understand the speed placards in the cockpit, the one named 'Boundry Speeds' shows the VRef speeds.
The placard reads 1.3 x VS0 (Stall speed or minimum flight speed in landing configuration). It's on the checklist. :wink:

Cheers

ste55
Airman
Posts: 13
Joined: 04 Nov 2017

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post ste55 »

Greetings,

I reworked my custom checklist and made a few adjustments.

- the 'Power Settings Chart' now also shows the fuel flow of the engines
- explanation of the airspeed indicator speed markings (the white dots) added
- V-speeds (V1, V2, VRef) put together on one chart
- all air conditioning items now marked with a dot
- header and footer line inserted
- page 2 rearranged
- fuel quantity check inserted before engine start

Download: L049 Checklist_v2.1pdf
Last edited by ste55 on 13 Apr 2021, 02:52, edited 1 time in total.

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 668
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post trisho0 »

Good Checklist to have on hand for quick references, Congrats!
I think it would be a good addition to the Checklist the Cabin Pressure located near the FE. I can see from the placard "Airplane - Cabin" a list of Numbers telling us what to enter for certain Altitude. I think that Placard needs to be updated. Example, Airplane Sea Level 10,000 and Cabin Sea Level 1,000. Is that correct? Or, what adjustments need Cabin Altitude and Rate of Change to stop "Babies crying" on my landings?
Found from Checklist there is a title "DECENT" I think it should say "DESCENT"
Patricio

ste55
Airman
Posts: 13
Joined: 04 Nov 2017

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post ste55 »

Hi,

Thanks for the info, I have corrected the small typo and updated my checklist and download links. (v2.1)
As for the pressure chart, I took it directly from the Constellation cockpit. The Flight Engineer also uses other settings I noticed. Maybe someone knows more about the pressure settings and can help with the question.
As far as I understand it, you look at your corresponding flight altitude in the left column and see in the right column which cabin altitude should be set.
When flying at sea level, set sea level as cabin altitude. Up to 8000 feet, it seems that you always set sea level as cabin altitude. If you fly higher, e.g. at 10,000 feet, you set 1000 feet cabin altitude and so on.
And as for babies crying on landing, there are already many posts here on this forum. It really doesn't seem that easy to fly in a way that babies don't scream.

Best,

ste55

TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 923
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post TreeTops »

Crying babies are affected by change in pressure. They will cry when the rate of change in pressure/altitude is near 1000 feet/minute or more. To avoid passenger discomfort aim for a rate of change in altitude closer to 300-700 fpm maximum.
There are two situations to consider with how the passengers react to cabin pressure.
1. unpressurised cabin means passengers feel the plane climb or descend at the same rate as the plane. This limits the plane's climb/descent rate to less than 700 fpm to maintain passenger comfort. This would occur when near to airport altitude.
2. pressurised cabin enables the FE to set the rate of change valve to an appropriate comfort level such as 300 fpm. So as long as the cabin pressure is greater than the outside air pressure, the plane can climb or descend at greater rates such as 1000 fpm while the passengers can enjoy a slower rate of change of say 300 fpm. This would occur at altitudes considerably higher than airport altitude.

The placard suggests that the cabin remain at sea or airport level while the plane operates between 0-8000 ft. To achieve this, set the cabin pressure 'rate of change' indicator to 0 fpm. This will maintain the current cabin pressure at whatever it was when the doors were closed at the airport.

Example : The airport is at sea level or 0 ft, the plane will take off and climb at approx 1000 fpm for 8 minutes reaching 8000 ft. Meanwhile the cabin pressure has been maintained at sea level. The passengers feel no change.
Higher than 8000 ft the cabin pressure will need to start dropping or the plane will eventually pop like a balloon. Lets continue the climb from 8000 ft to 10000 ft aiming for a cabin pressure of 1000 ft (from the placard). Still climbing at 1000 fpm, the plane reaches 10000 ft in 2 minutes. For passenger comfort we need to start using the cabin pressure rate of change valve. Lets use a nice easy 300 fpm setting. So while the plane climbed from 8000 ft to 10000 ft in 2 minutes, the cabin only changed 2 min x 300 fpm = 600 ft. If the plane levelled off at 10000 ft, to catch up, the cabin would take over three minutes to 'climb' to 1000 ft.

Note of caution : If the cruise altitude is much higher than 8000 ft, maintaining sea level pressure up to 8000 ft would then restrict the further climb rate of the plane due to maximum differential pressure if passenger comfort were to be maintained. It is better to start the cabin altitude climb much sooner, like 1000 ft above ground. This keeps the maximium differential pressure as low as possible while still allowing the passengers to experience rate of change of 300 fpm.

The same in the descent, the plan being to equalise the cabin pressure about 1000 ft above ground.
Example : From cruise altitude of 15000 ft to land at sea level and the aim being to be at 1000 ft cabin pressure at 1000 ft above ground (equalised), with a rate of change of 300 fpm. At 15000 ft the cabin pressure would be set to 4750 ft.
15000 ft - 1000 ft = 14000 ft descent at 1000 fpm = 14 minutes descending to 1000 ft above ground
At cabin pressure rate of change of 300 fpm, changing from 4750 ft to 1000 ft would take 12.5 minutes to achieve. This is less than the 14 minutes required to descend the plane so a rate of change of 300 fpm is achievable.

At 1000 ft above ground, from here down to landing is where the babies will start crying if you arent careful.
Remember as the captain, you have been descending the plane at 1000 fpm for the past 14 minutes, and you can see the runway right ahead and you only have 1000 feet to the landing. How easy is it to continue at the same 1000 fpm rate and get the plane on the ground? Real easy, however the passengers, having enjoyed a nice slow 300 fpm descent for the past 14 minutes, are suddenly feeling 1000 fpm descent due to the inside/outside pressures being equal. Babies dont like this and start crying.
The final 1000 ft to landing should be flown at 500 fpm, or about 700 fpm on the ILS approach.
Last edited by TreeTops on 05 May 2021, 03:35, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 668
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
13 Apr 2021, 08:05
Crying babies are affected by change in pressure. They will cry when the rate of change in pressure/altitude is near 1000 feet/minute or more. To avoid passenger discomfort aim for a rate of change in altitude closer to 300-700 fpm maximum.
There are two situations to consider with how the passengers react to cabin pressure.
1. unpressurised cabin means passengers feel the plane climb or descend at the same rate as the plane. This limits the plane's climb/descent rate to less than 700 fpm to maintain passenger comfort. This would occur when near to airport altitude.
2. pressurised cabin enables the FE to set the rate of change valve to an appropriate comfort level such as 300 fpm. So as long as the cabin pressure is greater than the outside air pressure, the plane can climb or descend at greater rates such as 1000 fpm while the passengers can enjoy a slower rate of change of say 300 fpm. This would occur at altitudes considerably higher than airport altitude.

The placard suggests that the cabin remain at sea or airport level while the plane operates between 0-8000 ft. To achieve this, set the cabin pressure 'rate of change' indicator to 0 fpm. This will maintain the current cabin pressure at whatever is was when the doors were closed at the airport.

Example : The airport is at sea level or 0 ft, the plane will take off and climb at approx 1000 fpm for 8 minutes reaching 8000 ft. Meanwhile the cabin pressure has been maintained at sea level. The passengers feel no change.
Higher than 8000 ft the cabin pressure will need to start dropping or the plane will eventually pop like a balloon. Lets continue the climb from 8000 ft to 10000 ft aiming for a cabin pressure of 1000 ft (from the placard). Still climbing at 1000 fpm, the plane reaches 10000 ft in 2 minutes. For passenger comfort we need to start using the cabin pressure rate of change valve. Lets use a nice easy 300 fpm setting. So while the plane climbed from 8000 ft to 10000 ft in 2 minutes, the cabin only changed 2 min x 300 fpm = 600 ft. If the plane levelled off at 10000 ft, to catch up, the cabin would take over three minutes to 'climb' to 1000 ft.

Note of caution : If the cruise altitude is much higher than 8000 ft, maintaining sea level pressure up to 8000 ft would then restrict the further climb rate of the plane due to maximum differential pressure if passenger comfort were to be maintained. It is better to start the cabin altitude climb much sooner, like 1000 ft above ground. This keeps the maximium differential pressure as low as possible while still allowing the passengers to experience rate of change of 300 fpm.

The same in the descent, the plan being to equalise the cabin pressure about 1000 ft above ground.
Example : From cruise altitude of 15000 ft to land at sea level and the aim being to be at 1000 ft cabin pressure at 1000 ft above ground (equalised), with a rate of change of 300 fpm. At 15000 ft the cabin pressure would be set to 4750 ft.
15000 ft - 1000 ft = 14000 ft descent at 1000 fpm = 14 minutes descending to 1000 ft above ground
At cabin pressure rate of change of 300 fpm, changing from 4750 ft to 1000 ft would take 12.5 minutes to achieve. This is less than the 14 minutes required to descend the plane so a rate of change of 300 fpm is achievable.

At 1000 ft above ground, from here down to landing is where the babies will start crying if you arent careful.
Remember as the captain, you have been descending the plane at 1000 fpm for the past 14 minutes, and you can see the runway right ahead and you only have 1000 feet to the landing. How easy is it to continue at the same 1000 fpm rate and get the plane on the ground? Real easy, however the passengers, having enjoyed a nice slow 300 fpm descent for the past 14 minutes, are suddenly feeling 1000 fpm descent due to the inside/outside pressures being equal. Babies dont like this and start crying.
The final 1000 ft to landing should be flown at 500 fpm, or about 700 fpm on the ILS approach.
Hello Trev long time been no touch. I was reading and learning about Babies crying comments. I can't find how to calculate cabin pressure as you said to be set to 4,750 ft. for a cruise altitude of 15,000 ft. Coincidently I set the same 4750 for 15000 altitude but because it is what I found from FE actions.

I heard babies crying even landing at 500-700 ft so, I am am confused.
Patricio

TreeTops
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 923
Joined: 07 Apr 2010

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post TreeTops »

4750 ft at 15000 ft is as per the placard under the cabin pressure gauges.
First find the planned altitude you will cruise at, and then look at the corresponding cabin altitude. ie 15000 ft cruise and 4750 ft cabin altitude.
So after takeoff and at least 1000 ft above ground, (and after the workload has reduced) set the cabin pressure indicator to that number.

Babies are more sensitive to pressure change which is why they cry. You must not oscillate up and down but be steady in the climb/descent. A smooth 500-700 ft descent should be ok, but Suddenly height losses of 1000 ft will start the babies cyring.
Cheers
Trev

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 668
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post trisho0 »

TreeTops wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 22:43
4750 ft at 15000 ft is as per the placard under the cabin pressure gauges.
First find the planned altitude you will cruise at, and then look at the corresponding cabin altitude. ie 15000 ft cruise and 4750 ft cabin altitude.
So after takeoff and at least 1000 ft above ground, (and after the workload has reduced) set the cabin pressure indicator to that number.

Babies are more sensitive to pressure change which is why they cry. You must not oscillate up and down but be steady in the climb/descent. A smooth 500-700 ft descent should be ok, but Suddenly height losses of 1000 ft will start the babies cyring.
I noticed FE handles the cabin pressure differently. Also, I want to learn the use of the Rate Of Change. I mean when to set the rate, what setting and how often to change it? I can follow FE actions but ignoring what he is doing with the rate of change.
Patricio

MD-82
Airman
Posts: 29
Joined: 13 Apr 2019

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post MD-82 »

Hello,

what is most probably the case is that the placard shows the ratio of cabin to outside pressure at maximum differential. It doesn't mean that that is what you HAVE to use. It means that if you're the only man flying a 5 crew airplane it is much easier to set it according to the placard. The placard can't cater for all cases so it displays the limits. If you fly her accordingly and set the rate to 300/400 fpm, you will have zero issues. The FE does not have to fly the airplane, he can reference more charts and set a value that is below the limits, the same way a modern pressurization controller does. Piston engines do not appreciate rapid descents in any case, so a shallow descent is what is used. We use 500 fpm, as it guarantees 0 issues with catching up with the cabin pressure and also makes sure shock cooling and carb. ice susceptibility is minimized.

Barring any huge head or tailwind components, if you use an average ground speed of 240 knots during your descent it is a very simple calculation. If I'm at FL190, I will descend for 38 minutes. (Double the amount of thousands of feet because you're descending at 500 fpm). 240 knots is 4 nm per minute. The ability to quickly figure your speed in nm/min is a vital ability for manual descents. In any airplane. In this case 38(min) x 4(nm per minute) = 152 nautical miles. The idea is to calculate a realistic value and do spot checks on the way down.

Variations. Is the airport at high elevation and not sea level? Subtract it from the cruising level. Strong head wind? Take off a nominal value (or use 3.8, 3.7 whatever times your descent time) Strong tail wind? Opposite of the before mentioned. Do you want to be a super airman? Calculate your track miles by adding your approach. Add the distance between waypoints. You'll get exactly how many miles before a certain checkpoint you need to start descending. Does your approach have a DME arc? You can even calculate the amount of miles flow in that arc. This is how me and a buddy fly her, no GPS. Just good airmanship and planning.

With this 500 fpm R.O.D. there is no way you can ever come close to catching up to the cabin's 300 fpm descent rate. My advice is that if you are flying this airplane correctly, without the help of GPS etc., best let the FE handle it. I've done it at the start, but I understand it and I'm confident I can take over. However airmanship dictates we delegate. And that is what I do.

Cheers,

trisho0
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 668
Joined: 31 Mar 2018

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post trisho0 »

MD-82, good comments and I am learning even more of this. Rarely I leave FE activated so I do the necessary cabin pressure changes. I will watch on the vertical speed more carefully to stop babies crying on my landings.
Patricio

Bigfish14
Airman
Posts: 23
Joined: 27 Nov 2015
Location: Nottingham, England

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post Bigfish14 »

Ste55, I'm just about to start flying the Connie and found your checklist. Beautiful piece of work which will be a tremendous help with this complex aircraft. Thanks very much for sharing this with us.
Alan
P.S. I'll worry about the babies later...
i9-10900k @5.2GHz, Asus Maximus XII Hero, 32 Gb DDR4-3600, RTX 2060, Acer Predator X34, FSXSE, Honeycomb Alpha + Bravo, Logitech Pro Pedals

ste55
Airman
Posts: 13
Joined: 04 Nov 2017

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post ste55 »

Hello,

I am glad that I can help many hobby pilots with my checklist. I was missing something like this, especially for such a complex aircraft as the Connie.
The last answers regarding the cabin pressurization were also very interesting. You never stop learning.

@Bigfish14: By the way, I used tools like word and outlook for the checklist.

Best,

Stephan

Bigfish14
Airman
Posts: 23
Joined: 27 Nov 2015
Location: Nottingham, England

Re: Constellation Checklist, V-Speeds, Tank Management etc.

Post Bigfish14 »

Stephan, great, very inspiring, thanks again.
Alan
i9-10900k @5.2GHz, Asus Maximus XII Hero, 32 Gb DDR4-3600, RTX 2060, Acer Predator X34, FSXSE, Honeycomb Alpha + Bravo, Logitech Pro Pedals

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