no more ground loops for me :)

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cessna lover
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no more ground loops for me :)

Post cessna lover »

i have just under 9 hours on my plane and have not had a ground loop in a long time. this is a really good airplane to fly. she's a little hard to fly with the fuel tanks are not even. and aerobatics can be a pain sometimes but when you get better with this thing the ground loops go away. i get happy feet when trying to land and her tail tries to get away but i haven't let it so far.
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MkIV Hvd
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post MkIV Hvd »

There is a reason she was nicknamed The Pilot Maker! :mrgreen:

There's no way you can go wrong with the T-6 and I'm glad you're enjoying the experience! BTW aerobatics in the T-6 is all about energy management :wink:

Cheers,
Rob
Rob Wilkinson
A2A Harvard, Mustangs Civilian & Military, Spitfire, P-40, Comanche, Bonanza, Cub, VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

cessna lover
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post cessna lover »

MkIV Hvd wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:12
There is a reason she was nicknamed The Pilot Maker! :mrgreen:

There's no way you can go wrong with the T-6 and I'm glad you're enjoying the experience! BTW aerobatics in the T-6 is all about energy management :wink:

Cheers,
Rob
yes energy management and half full fuel tanks if i remember correctly? cause i can't get a loop with out stalling lol
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cessna lover
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post cessna lover »

how come the B-17 p40 and p51 and the cub don't seem to want to ground loop as quick as the t-6 does? i don't seem to have to have as much rudder input for those as i do the t6
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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post DHenriquesA2A »

cessna lover wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:29
MkIV Hvd wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:12
There is a reason she was nicknamed The Pilot Maker! :mrgreen:

There's no way you can go wrong with the T-6 and I'm glad you're enjoying the experience! BTW aerobatics in the T-6 is all about energy management :wink:

Cheers,
Rob
yes energy management and half full fuel tanks if i remember correctly? cause i can't get a loop with out stalling lol
Cessna Lover;

The trick involved with looping the T6 is g control through the upline past the 90 and onto your back at the top. It's a delicate blending that involves easing off the g from the initial pull but maintaining enough positive g to continue the loop. What you have to watch out for is that as you ease off the g you build parasite drag by the ton. The answer is that as the speed bleeds off you THEN can increase the g a bit more to keep things positive through the top.
The 6 is a heavy drag intensive airplane. Flying it acrobatically is always a blending of muscle and finesse.
Have fun.
BTW, your post above about ground looping reads exactly like the comment I would expect from a pilot transitioning into a real T6. Pardon me if I pat ourselves on the back for doing a great job with the flight model on our T6. We did it right ! :-)
Hope my little tip helps a bit.
Enjoy !
Dudley Henriques
Dudley Henriques

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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post cessna lover »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 09:00
cessna lover wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:29
MkIV Hvd wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:12
There is a reason she was nicknamed The Pilot Maker! :mrgreen:

There's no way you can go wrong with the T-6 and I'm glad you're enjoying the experience! BTW aerobatics in the T-6 is all about energy management :wink:

Cheers,
Rob
yes energy management and half full fuel tanks if i remember correctly? cause i can't get a loop with out stalling lol
Cessna Lover;

The trick involved with looping the T6 is g control through the upline past the 90 and onto your back at the top. It's a delicate blending that involves easing off the g from the initial pull but maintaining enough positive g to continue the loop. What you have to watch out for is that as you ease off the g you build parasite drag by the ton. The answer is that as the speed bleeds off you THEN can increase the g a bit more to keep things positive through the top.
The 6 is a heavy drag intensive airplane. Flying it acrobatically is always a blending of muscle and finesse.
Have fun.
BTW, your post above about ground looping reads exactly like the comment I would expect from a pilot transitioning into a real T6. Pardon me if I pat ourselves on the back for doing a great job with the flight model on our T6. We did it right ! :-)
Hope my little tip helps a bit.
Enjoy !
Dudley Henriques
Dudley Henriques
i would not know about the real thing as i have not seen one in a long time. but yes you guys did do this right. another thing i learned about flying this is to hold the tail up until it will no longer stay up. then that way when the tail wheel does come down it stays straight upon touch down 8)
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Scott - A2A
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post Scott - A2A »

cessna lover wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:39
how come the B-17 p40 and p51 and the cub don't seem to want to ground loop as quick as the t-6 does?
My theory is there is more weight behind the front wheel's point of contact. At least that's how it feels, having more weight behind wanting to swing around to the front.

Scott.
A2A Simulations Inc.

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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post DHenriquesA2A »

cessna lover wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:39
how come the B-17 p40 and p51 and the cub don't seem to want to ground loop as quick as the t-6 does? i don't seem to have to have as much rudder input for those as i do the t6
The reasons Scott has given are all pertinent. Beyond that you have the close main gear spacing on the 6. What that translates into is that although the physics and moment arms are present in all tailwheel airplanes, the coupling of the physics that cause ground loops occur faster in the T6 than in aircraft with wider spacing between the two main gear.
All this has been programmed into the Accusim of these planes so that the ground handling is quite accurate as compared with each plane's real world counterpart.
I would note that the Cub also has close gear spacing. However the much lighter weight of the Cub
protects it in part from the reaction to lateral displacement and excursion as compared to the much heavier T6 .
Dudley Henriques

cessna lover
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post cessna lover »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
08 Oct 2021, 21:25
cessna lover wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 08:39
how come the B-17 p40 and p51 and the cub don't seem to want to ground loop as quick as the t-6 does? i don't seem to have to have as much rudder input for those as i do the t6
The reasons Scott has given are all pertinent. Beyond that you have the close main gear spacing on the 6. What that translates into is that although the physics and moment arms are present in all tailwheel airplanes, the coupling of the physics that cause ground loops occur faster in the T6 than in aircraft with wider spacing between the two main gear.
All this has been programmed into the Accusim of these planes so that the ground handling is quite accurate as compared with each plane's real world counterpart.
I would note that the Cub also has close gear spacing. However the much lighter weight of the Cub
protects it in part from the reaction to lateral displacement and excursion as compared to the much heavier T6 .
Dudley Henriques
this is what i was thinking as well. the B-17 is wider and longer then the T6. so it don't want to ground loop. i think the same goes for the P-51 as well. now the cub is just barely fast enough to kill ya so it's not prone to this at all. i find it to be just the T6. virtually of course. lol
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Scott - A2A
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post Scott - A2A »

Dudley was advising me during my training / development of our T-6. If it weren't for Dudley I never would have had such great access to the P-51 and T-6. And the Accu-Sim T-6 would have never been close to what it was if it wasn't kicking my butt landing after landing. I knew the moment I was challenged to that degree feeling all of the physics and weights being tossed around that this was going to be the most challenging / fun project. Dudley said "Scott, this is why they say once your've mastered the P-51 you are now ready to start training on the T-6" :)

This Accu-Sim T-6 is so accurate I'm not sure it will even be equaled again, possibly not even by A2A. It all just came together sort of magically.

Scott
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cessna lover
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post cessna lover »

Scott - A2A wrote:
10 Oct 2021, 07:40
Dudley was advising me during my training / development of our T-6. If it weren't for Dudley I never would have had such great access to the P-51 and T-6. And the Accu-Sim T-6 would have never been close to what it was if it wasn't kicking my butt landing after landing. I knew the moment I was challenged to that degree feeling all of the physics and weights being tossed around that this was going to be the most challenging / fun project. Dudley said "Scott, this is why they say once your've mastered the P-51 you are now ready to start training on the T-6" :)

This Accu-Sim T-6 is so accurate I'm not sure it will even be equaled again, possibly not even by A2A. It all just came together sort of magically.

Scott
yeah but you are a real pilot and get to fly for real. sadly my wallet won't let me. the A2A airplanes are as close as I'm going to get. and yes i love the P-51 as well. her and i get along now. when i first downloaded it i couldn't even get off the ground with it let alone get into the sky. lol i don't get three point landings but i am good with tail draggers. 8)
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Avio
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post Avio »

A little belated post on this from me, BUT I love the A2A T6 !! Flown quite a bit in it, and been mostly doing 3-point touch down landing. When done right that way, the T-6 usually roll out nicely with no ground looping.

cessna lover
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post cessna lover »

Avio wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 20:53
A little belated post on this from me, BUT I love the A2A T6 !! Flown quite a bit in it, and been mostly doing 3-point touch down landing. When done right that way, the T-6 usually roll out nicely with no ground looping.
i agree it's a great plane to fly. unlike you i don't get three pointers lucky so and so you are :lol: but what i do is after landing i just hold the tail up untill it comes down on it's own and that seems to work out pretty well i'm not sure it thats a good real world procedure but it works virtually
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DHenriquesA2A
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post DHenriquesA2A »

cessna lover wrote:
22 Nov 2021, 08:01
Avio wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 20:53
A little belated post on this from me, BUT I love the A2A T6 !! Flown quite a bit in it, and been mostly doing 3-point touch down landing. When done right that way, the T-6 usually roll out nicely with no ground looping.
i agree it's a great plane to fly. unlike you i don't get three pointers lucky so and so you are :lol: but what i do is after landing i just hold the tail up untill it comes down on it's own and that seems to work out pretty well i'm not sure it thats a good real world procedure but it works virtually
The way we teach it in real life is to "FLY" the tail down slowly while the dynamic pressure is still available on the elevators to do that early on during the rollout.
Doing it this way helps to eliminate any "sudden" reaction to tailwheel ground contact as the tail settles in harder later on in the roll out as energy dissipates and less control is available on the tail.
Dudley Henriques

MkIV Hvd
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Re: no more ground loops for me :)

Post MkIV Hvd »

cessna lover wrote:
22 Nov 2021, 08:01
Avio wrote:
21 Nov 2021, 20:53
A little belated post on this from me, BUT I love the A2A T6 !! Flown quite a bit in it, and been mostly doing 3-point touch down landing. When done right that way, the T-6 usually roll out nicely with no ground looping.
i agree it's a great plane to fly. unlike you i don't get three pointers lucky so and so you are :lol: but what i do is after landing i just hold the tail up untill it comes down on it's own and that seems to work out pretty well i'm not sure it thats a good real world procedure but it works virtually
Well first of all, I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that the three pointers Avio gets are not the result of luck, rather focused practice :mrgreen:

According to a retired military pilot I discussed this with 40 years ago or so, in the RCAF they were trained to use three point landings always...unless showing off at an airshow or something. That's how I was taught, so real world or sim, I've always three pointed the T-6. I feel like the less time you spend with the tail in the air in deceleration mode, the better. :wink:

The issue is magnified in the T-6 due to the narrow track of the main gear and the relatively long arm from the main gear wheels back to the C of G in relation to other taildraggers. If you look at the gear geometry and relationship between the main gear and the tailwheel, it's a quite narrow isosceles triangle, while that triangle on the Mustang appears to be almost equilateral. What that means is that when a yaw starts, it doesn't take very long in the T-6 for the C of G to get outside of the line between the respective main wheel and the tailwheel and once that happens, you're going for a ride... :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Rob
Rob Wilkinson
A2A Harvard, Mustangs Civilian & Military, Spitfire, P-40, Comanche, Bonanza, Cub, VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...

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