I have noticed that when making turns the ball initially moves so I need rudder to correct that. But then it moves back again. It can even move to the right when I am in a left turn.
Sometimes it seem that the ball does not move at all during turns. How should it be ? I use P3D 5.3
Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
- DHenriques_
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Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
From what you are saying it seems like you are entering some of your turns using too much rudder, some with not enough rudder, and some with the right amount of rudder.JanF wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 16:36 I have noticed that when making turns the ball initially moves so I need rudder to correct that. But then it moves back again. It can even move to the right when I am in a left turn.
Sometimes it seem that the ball does not move at all during turns. How should it be ? I use P3D 5.3
Dudley Henriques
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Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
Hey! That's the technique I use.DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 17:00 From what you are saying it seems like you are entering some of your turns using too much rudder, some with not enough rudder, and some with the right amount of rudder.
Dudley Henriques
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Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
Rob Wilkinson
A2A: Civilian Mustang, T-6, Bonanza, Comanche, Cub, C182, Spitfire, P-40, Cherokee, P-51 - VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...
A2A: Civilian Mustang, T-6, Bonanza, Comanche, Cub, C182, Spitfire, P-40, Cherokee, P-51 - VATSIM P4 and some other stuff...
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
The initial move you notice is caused by adverse yaw ("aileron braking" as the effect is quite well named in some languages). After you center the aileron when having achieved the desired bank, this effect goes away. What remains is the slight residual sideslip into the turn. There are some distinct causes to that but they are not too important for casual flying, as the relative magnitude of these "components" vary. As a result, most light aircraft that I know how they fly require a slight in-turn rudder input and slight out-turn aileron input in a steady-state, shallow-medium bank turn.JanF wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 16:36 I have noticed that when making turns the ball initially moves so I need rudder to correct that. But then it moves back again. It can even move to the right when I am in a left turn.
Sometimes it seem that the ball does not move at all during turns. How should it be ? I use P3D 5.3
Why you find this puzzling I believe is that, in my experience, many FSX/P3D aircraft, addons included, tend to exaggerate the amount of in-turn rudder required during a steady turn, in particular at higher bank angles. Perhaps A2A Comanche not so much.
-Esa
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
I don't think that could always be the case. I have for example entering a standard 2 minutes turn without touching the rudder pedals. Still the ball was always centered. A faster or steeper turn made the ball move somewhat.DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 17:00From what you are saying it seems like you are entering some of your turns using too much rudder, some with not enough rudder, and some with the right amount of rudder.JanF wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 16:36 I have noticed that when making turns the ball initially moves so I need rudder to correct that. But then it moves back again. It can even move to the right when I am in a left turn.
Sometimes it seem that the ball does not move at all during turns. How should it be ? I use P3D 5.3
Dudley Henriques
Is a more steep turn then standard required ? Or does how fast I turn affect this ?
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
It's a balance between bank and speed. The airplane geometry also plays a small role. Try different speeds and you will experience different behavior of the ball. Try the J-3, try a jet; you will always experience different behavior.
- DHenriques_
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Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
Believe it or not that little black ball in the tube is the most accurate instrument on the panel.JanF wrote: ↑09 Dec 2021, 15:35I don't think that could always be the case. I have for example entering a standard 2 minutes turn without touching the rudder pedals. Still the ball was always centered. A faster or steeper turn made the ball move somewhat.DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 17:00From what you are saying it seems like you are entering some of your turns using too much rudder, some with not enough rudder, and some with the right amount of rudder.JanF wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 16:36 I have noticed that when making turns the ball initially moves so I need rudder to correct that. But then it moves back again. It can even move to the right when I am in a left turn.
Sometimes it seem that the ball does not move at all during turns. How should it be ? I use P3D 5.3
Dudley Henriques
Is a more steep turn then standard required ? Or does how fast I turn affect this ?
Simply put, ANYTIME the tail of the airplane isn't perfectly aligned with the nose in maneuvering flight that ball will be out of the doghouse. This will happen regardless of your airspeed or how fast or slow you enter and exit a turn.
Specific aircraft in the sim are more prone to adverse yaw than others, and controllers are not always calibrated perfectly.
Dudley Henriques
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
As noted, the type of plane, the airspeed, power, attitude and magnitude of control inputs all play a part. If you gently roll into and out of a turn, you will experience very little adverse yaw vs doing so with greater inputs.
There is an exercise I like to do with aircraft I am unfamiliar with or haven't flown in some time. My instructor introduced it to me very early on when learning to fly. He called it a rider coordination exercise.
You can and should do this at various speeds and power settings and with varying degrees of control inputs.
Pick a distant and easily recognizable point on the horizon and point the nose of the aircraft at it.
Roll to the right with coordinated inputs as required to keep the point fixed on the nose.
As soon as you reach 30 degrees of bank roll to the left
Repeat a couple of times and feel out the aircraft response and do whatever you need to do to keep that point stationary on the nose.
Try this at different speeds and power settings and configurations.
There is an exercise I like to do with aircraft I am unfamiliar with or haven't flown in some time. My instructor introduced it to me very early on when learning to fly. He called it a rider coordination exercise.
You can and should do this at various speeds and power settings and with varying degrees of control inputs.
Pick a distant and easily recognizable point on the horizon and point the nose of the aircraft at it.
Roll to the right with coordinated inputs as required to keep the point fixed on the nose.
As soon as you reach 30 degrees of bank roll to the left
Repeat a couple of times and feel out the aircraft response and do whatever you need to do to keep that point stationary on the nose.
Try this at different speeds and power settings and configurations.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
In the glider world there is another exercise that I find useful - that is, over/under-banking.Oracle427 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 11:11 There is an exercise I like to do with aircraft I am unfamiliar with or haven't flown in some time. My instructor introduced it to me very early on when learning to fly. He called it a rider coordination exercise.
You can and should do this at various speeds and power settings and with varying degrees of control inputs.
Pick a distant and easily recognizable point on the horizon and point the nose of the aircraft at it.
Roll to the right with coordinated inputs as required to keep the point fixed on the nose.
As soon as you reach 30 degrees of bank roll to the left
Repeat a couple of times and feel out the aircraft response and do whatever you need to do to keep that point stationary on the nose.
Try this at different speeds and power settings and configurations.
This is, to bring your pitch attitude and/or velocity trend where you want it to be by banking, not by pulling or pushing. In the physics sense, this tends towards the optimal as you roughly maintain your (hopefully well-picked) trim-AoA by your 'bout constant pull, or lack thereof. As a bonus, this makes one sensitive to the transients! When to kick, when to pull or push and relax, and so on.
But more relevantly, it makes one sensitive on how the ball is affected by all the rudder, the aileron and even the elevator.
Further, this introduces one into the concept that, no, the bank angle does not at all affect the stall speed, mostly your pull does!
This does not directly apply, however, to airplanes with other than direct stick-to-elevator displacement ratio. That is, mostly mechanical.
-Esa
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
How should the controllers be calibrated for A2A planes ? How can I determine if they are right ?DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 10:53Believe it or not that little black ball in the tube is the most accurate instrument on the panel.JanF wrote: ↑09 Dec 2021, 15:35I don't think that could always be the case. I have for example entering a standard 2 minutes turn without touching the rudder pedals. Still the ball was always centered. A faster or steeper turn made the ball move somewhat.DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑07 Dec 2021, 17:00
From what you are saying it seems like you are entering some of your turns using too much rudder, some with not enough rudder, and some with the right amount of rudder.
Dudley Henriques
Is a more steep turn then standard required ? Or does how fast I turn affect this ?
Simply put, ANYTIME the tail of the airplane isn't perfectly aligned with the nose in maneuvering flight that ball will be out of the doghouse. This will happen regardless of your airspeed or how fast or slow you enter and exit a turn.
Specific aircraft in the sim are more prone to adverse yaw than others, and controllers are not always calibrated perfectly.
Dudley Henriques
- DHenriques_
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Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
Each controller will act differently so there really is no standard. The best thing to do is to simply make sure your controllers are calibrated correctly and check for axis conflicts (duplicate assignments).JanF wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 11:12How should the controllers be calibrated for A2A planes ? How can I determine if they are right ?DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 10:53Believe it or not that little black ball in the tube is the most accurate instrument on the panel.JanF wrote: ↑09 Dec 2021, 15:35
I don't think that could always be the case. I have for example entering a standard 2 minutes turn without touching the rudder pedals. Still the ball was always centered. A faster or steeper turn made the ball move somewhat.
Is a more steep turn then standard required ? Or does how fast I turn affect this ?
Simply put, ANYTIME the tail of the airplane isn't perfectly aligned with the nose in maneuvering flight that ball will be out of the doghouse. This will happen regardless of your airspeed or how fast or slow you enter and exit a turn.
Specific aircraft in the sim are more prone to adverse yaw than others, and controllers are not always calibrated perfectly.
Dudley Henriques
Believe it or not the final contributor to a stable controller is YOU and the way you use the controller. Turns for example can be smooth or not so smooth based completely on how gentle you are while using the controller.
Remember.......even in a simulator.....just like in the actual plane, you fly the airplane using gentle pressures on the controls.
Dudley Henriques
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
I forgot to mention that I have TM Hotas Warthog and the CH Rudder pedalsDHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 12:26Each controller will act differently so there really is no standard. The best thing to do is to simply make sure your controllers are calibrated correctly and check for axis conflicts (duplicate assignments).JanF wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 11:12How should the controllers be calibrated for A2A planes ? How can I determine if they are right ?DHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 10:53
Believe it or not that little black ball in the tube is the most accurate instrument on the panel.
Simply put, ANYTIME the tail of the airplane isn't perfectly aligned with the nose in maneuvering flight that ball will be out of the doghouse. This will happen regardless of your airspeed or how fast or slow you enter and exit a turn.
Specific aircraft in the sim are more prone to adverse yaw than others, and controllers are not always calibrated perfectly.
Dudley Henriques
Believe it or not the final contributor to a stable controller is YOU and the way you use the controller. Turns for example can be smooth or not so smooth based completely on how gentle you are while using the controller.
Remember.......even in a simulator.....just like in the actual plane, you fly the airplane using gentle pressures on the controls.
Dudley Henriques
- DHenriques_
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Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
Standard stuff really. I've used both. One thing I did learn early was not to use the Thrustmaster drivers. I found calibrating in Windows and setting up in the simulator has always worked well for me. The only time I've had issues (and I've just gone through some of these recently) have been the times when I have installed a manufacturer's driver for a controller.JanF wrote: ↑31 Dec 2021, 08:55I forgot to mention that I have TM Hotas Warthog and the CH Rudder pedalsDHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 12:26Each controller will act differently so there really is no standard. The best thing to do is to simply make sure your controllers are calibrated correctly and check for axis conflicts (duplicate assignments).
Believe it or not the final contributor to a stable controller is YOU and the way you use the controller. Turns for example can be smooth or not so smooth based completely on how gentle you are while using the controller.
Remember.......even in a simulator.....just like in the actual plane, you fly the airplane using gentle pressures on the controls.
Dudley Henriques
Just my personal preference.
DH
Re: Is this correct behavior of the attitude ball
I find the information that 'No driver is required or have been loaded. So it seem clear that I am not using Thrustmsters driverDHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑31 Dec 2021, 11:52Standard stuff really. I've used both. One thing I did learn early was not to use the Thrustmaster drivers. I found calibrating in Windows and setting up in the simulator has always worked well for me. The only time I've had issues (and I've just gone through some of these recently) have been the times when I have installed a manufacturer's driver for a controller.JanF wrote: ↑31 Dec 2021, 08:55I forgot to mention that I have TM Hotas Warthog and the CH Rudder pedalsDHenriquesA2A wrote: ↑29 Dec 2021, 12:26
Each controller will act differently so there really is no standard. The best thing to do is to simply make sure your controllers are calibrated correctly and check for axis conflicts (duplicate assignments).
Believe it or not the final contributor to a stable controller is YOU and the way you use the controller. Turns for example can be smooth or not so smooth based completely on how gentle you are while using the controller.
Remember.......even in a simulator.....just like in the actual plane, you fly the airplane using gentle pressures on the controls.
Dudley Henriques
Just my personal preference.
DH
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