Hello.
I have serious problems landing my Comanche for ILS. It detects the ILS, but then deflects, to one side or the other, eventually passing next to the airport. Is it possible to get a point-by-point tutorial about landing by ILS?
Comanche ILS
- DHenriques_
- A2A Chief Pilot
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Re: Comanche ILS
Just Google "ILS Tutorial" There is a ton of information available on the subject.josecamoreira wrote:Hello.
I have serious problems landing my Comanche for ILS. It detects the ILS, but then deflects, to one side or the other, eventually passing next to the airport. Is it possible to get a point-by-point tutorial about landing by ILS?
Dudley Henriques
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- Airman
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Re: Comanche ILS
Thank you. I tried it, and Google sent me into THIS forum.
- Nick - A2A
- A2A Captain
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- Location: UK
Re: Comanche ILS
Hi,
If you're getting to grips with using an ILS, this site aimed at flight simmers is quite a good place to start: http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/. The section on ILS Basics is here.
You could also take a look at this thread in the 'Flight Academy' forum here.
If you can give us a bit more info on your current technique, it'll be easier to offer advice.
Cheers,
Nick
If you're getting to grips with using an ILS, this site aimed at flight simmers is quite a good place to start: http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/. The section on ILS Basics is here.
You could also take a look at this thread in the 'Flight Academy' forum here.
If you can give us a bit more info on your current technique, it'll be easier to offer advice.
Cheers,
Nick
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Re: Comanche ILS
Hi, Nick. Thanks, and I'll try to explain the specific case:
1. Take-off of LPBR. Destination, LPPR (about 30NM to Southwest).
2. Destination airport: Radial 353. ILS 109,90. Rwy 17.
3. Radio 109.90, OMB 353
4. Take off to north, climb 4000 feet.
5. Turn to 270, attempting to intercept the radial 353. Morse signal.
6. The needle indicates that the intercept has been made. Active ILS.
7. The aircraft deflects north (!!!). The needle deflects.
8. Manually I point nose to the south. The needle returns to the center.
9. Reactive ILS. the aircraft diverts to East. Looks like looking for the ILS.
points south, and deflects west.
10. I leave the aircraft in peace. ILS is still active.
Slowly, the aircraft continues, north!
11. I give up, and close the flight simulator.
There are certainly errors in my procedures. Which are?
1. Take-off of LPBR. Destination, LPPR (about 30NM to Southwest).
2. Destination airport: Radial 353. ILS 109,90. Rwy 17.
3. Radio 109.90, OMB 353
4. Take off to north, climb 4000 feet.
5. Turn to 270, attempting to intercept the radial 353. Morse signal.
6. The needle indicates that the intercept has been made. Active ILS.
7. The aircraft deflects north (!!!). The needle deflects.
8. Manually I point nose to the south. The needle returns to the center.
9. Reactive ILS. the aircraft diverts to East. Looks like looking for the ILS.
points south, and deflects west.
10. I leave the aircraft in peace. ILS is still active.
Slowly, the aircraft continues, north!
11. I give up, and close the flight simulator.
There are certainly errors in my procedures. Which are?
Re: Comanche ILS
What is that radial 353 all about if you're doing ILS for runway 17? Your final approach course should be 172° or thereabouts. That's also what your heading bug must be set at.
-Esa
-Esa
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Re: Comanche ILS
Hi, AKar.
Thanks for the tip.
I just tried again but with the same result. That is, the aircraft turns to the left (to the south), but begins to diverge, sometimes to the east now to the West. It does not stay the course.
The most interesting thing is that I have already done the same flights with the Cherokee and the C172, and it always went well, which leads me to suspect a bug. Could it be?
Anyway, I think that by making the approach by ILS (not by VOR) the course is not important. I am wrong?
Thanks for the tip.
I just tried again but with the same result. That is, the aircraft turns to the left (to the south), but begins to diverge, sometimes to the east now to the West. It does not stay the course.
The most interesting thing is that I have already done the same flights with the Cherokee and the C172, and it always went well, which leads me to suspect a bug. Could it be?
Anyway, I think that by making the approach by ILS (not by VOR) the course is not important. I am wrong?
Re: Comanche ILS
Hi Jose,josecamoreira wrote:Hi, AKar.
Thanks for the tip.
I just tried again but with the same result. That is, the aircraft turns to the left (to the south), but begins to diverge, sometimes to the east now to the West. It does not stay the course.
The most interesting thing is that I have already done the same flights with the Cherokee and the C172, and it always went well, which leads me to suspect a bug. Could it be?
Anyway, I think that by making the approach by ILS (not by VOR) the course is not important. I am wrong?
Yes, you're right: the course selection makes no difference when flying ILS. It appears to me that you are doing this with autopilot; due to autopilot's features it is important to have the heading bug in close proximity of the final approach course.
Are you able to provide a screenshot of your attempted intercept for us to see precisely what you've set up and where?
I've done several ILSes without any troubles with A2A Comanche, so I don't necessarily think it is a bug. There are a few potential gotchas with the operation of the autopilot.
-Esa
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Re: Comanche ILS
Hi, AKar.
If you teach me HOW and WHERE TO, I'l try to send a video reporting the situation. Jus give me time to make it
If you teach me HOW and WHERE TO, I'l try to send a video reporting the situation. Jus give me time to make it
Re: Comanche ILS
I'm sure a simple screen will get us started, see Nick's post on how to add screenshots into your posts.
-Esa
-Esa
Re: Comanche ILS
I don't have charts, but using the default AFCAD, which seems to correlate to the info you provided (e.g., ILS frequency and airport), it works just fine. I flew a pattern with the ILS freq and course 172 selected. No issues using that to guide me in. I'm confused as to what you are doing? The only time the ILS is buggy in FS is when the AFCAD is incorrect or something. But the Comanche is fine. Both NAV 1 and NAV 2 are being used here. The bars are aligned perfectly.
Chris J.
Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU | Windows & Pro 64 bit | FSX:SE
Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU | Windows & Pro 64 bit | FSX:SE
Re: Comanche ILS
Your problem is highlighted. You are trying to fly a backcourse into runway 17. Why? First off, the course to RWY 17 is 172 degrees or thereabouts depending on your megdec. RWY 17, hence 172 degrees. If you were flying into RWY 35 the course would be 352 (up to date courses are 173, 353). RWY 35 doesn't have an ILS, so you aren't gonna get vertical guidance to minimums. And the backcourse concept in FS is likely not there. I'm not sure, I've never really looked into a BC approach since GPS, RNAV and others are much more prevalent.josecamoreira wrote:Hi, Nick. Thanks, and I'll try to explain the specific case:
1. Take-off of LPBR. Destination, LPPR (about 30NM to Southwest).
2. Destination airport: Radial 353. ILS 109,90. Rwy 17.
3. Radio 109.90, OMB 353
4. Take off to north, climb 4000 feet.
5. Turn to 270, attempting to intercept the radial 353. Morse signal.
6. The needle indicates that the intercept has been made. Active ILS.
7. The aircraft deflects north (!!!). The needle deflects.
8. Manually I point nose to the south. The needle returns to the center.
9. Reactive ILS. the aircraft diverts to East. Looks like looking for the ILS.
points south, and deflects west.
10. I leave the aircraft in peace. ILS is still active.
Slowly, the aircraft continues, north!
11. I give up, and close the flight simulator.
There are certainly errors in my procedures. Which are?
Chris J.
Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU | Windows & Pro 64 bit | FSX:SE
Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU | Windows & Pro 64 bit | FSX:SE
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Re: Comanche ILS
Hi, AKar.
I made a small video. Youi can find it in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S008Qe13ReE.
I made a small video. Youi can find it in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S008Qe13ReE.
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Re: Comanche ILS
Hi, Orlaam. Thanks for the help.
I've corrected the settings, but the behaviour remains, as you can see on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S008Qe13ReE
I've corrected the settings, but the behaviour remains, as you can see on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S008Qe13ReE
Re: Comanche ILS
Jose,
The behavior you see is expected and correct. You need to capture the localizer before engaging the TRK modes. When you do it like you did, the autopilot only sees the displaced needle to the left, and therefore turns in an endless left loop until it you meet the needle again. Then it starts to track right, as the needle displaces to the right.
There is no interception routine in System 30 autopilot! You need to intercept your legs and/or localizer and/or radials either manually, or in heading or ST modes! The autopilot simply turns towards the needle in an attempt to track it, but ends up turning as long as it remains displaced (it may not come to the center at all if you are far away of the course, then you end up flying in an endless circle).
Only engage the TRK mode when you are reasonably established on the final approach course. That solves your problem.
(Also, ignore my previous comment about the heading bug - I had KAP 140 in my mind as I haven't flown with A2A Comanche for a long time. In System 30, the heading bug is meaningless in TRK modes.)
-Esa
The behavior you see is expected and correct. You need to capture the localizer before engaging the TRK modes. When you do it like you did, the autopilot only sees the displaced needle to the left, and therefore turns in an endless left loop until it you meet the needle again. Then it starts to track right, as the needle displaces to the right.
There is no interception routine in System 30 autopilot! You need to intercept your legs and/or localizer and/or radials either manually, or in heading or ST modes! The autopilot simply turns towards the needle in an attempt to track it, but ends up turning as long as it remains displaced (it may not come to the center at all if you are far away of the course, then you end up flying in an endless circle).
Only engage the TRK mode when you are reasonably established on the final approach course. That solves your problem.
(Also, ignore my previous comment about the heading bug - I had KAP 140 in my mind as I haven't flown with A2A Comanche for a long time. In System 30, the heading bug is meaningless in TRK modes.)
-Esa
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