crash at take off with C172 and C182

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ramonr
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by ramonr »

I cannot try trhis now but I'll let you know as soon as possible
RR

ramonr
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by ramonr »

hello everybody
I stopped using A2A with P3D!
after having taken the decision I went back on the Cessna 182 but with FSX.
I have used the scenarion described in the video I posted some time ago. (2w3 and KGRF)
My difficulty now is only the landing.
I have to say first that it doesn't concern any problem caused by A2A.
During the simulations, the problem is in relation with the lack of landmarks or references to get on the runway at the right place and with the appropriate height.
The non sensitivity of the joystick is just adding an other difficulty on top of all the others.
A good advice from you, experimented simmers, would really be helpfull and appreciared.
best regards
RR

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Oracle427
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by Oracle427 »

Consider watching the videos published by Rod Machado. All the cues you need are on the runway itself. You just need to look at the correct places and practice, a lot.

https://youtu.be/4v5tOtdx7xs
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

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Nick - A2A
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Ramon - in addition to Rod's videos, you may find some of the discussion and links in this thread handy: Cessna 182 Landing Flare.

Thanks,
Nick

ramonr
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by ramonr »

Hello
I have readed all the suggestions of the different posts.
It is very interresting but not easy to practice like described. I am may be to impatient about getting quickly positive results!
My problem here is not really the flare with the exception when I am coming to the begining of the runway at a too high altitude.
The problem for me is to stay aligned with the runway.
Once I shut off the automatic pilot the alignement becomes very difficult and most of the time I land on the taxyway!!
What I did anyway is to approach to the runway using the Auto Pilot until the last moment.
I adjust manualy the altitude at the lowest possible about ten milles from the airport and then I control the slope by pressing the down knob at the desired rate.
I know it is not common practice but it helps to learn for proper visual references around during the approach.
I will try to practice it some more times until I can stop gradually the AP at a reasonable distance from the runway.
What are your comments about this learning/training procedure?
RR

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Oracle427
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by Oracle427 »

Stop using the autopilot to begin with and learn about the correct procedure that you need to perform. But i'd say that you need to learn to fly the aircraft in general.

Learn to control the aircraft and make out do what you want at all times. Without that level of control landing I'd going to be a big issue.

Why not take the built on flying lessons in the FSX learning center? In fact the instructor voiceover for those is also Rod Machado.

Learning to land requires the assembly of many other skills. You need to learn how to manage pitch and power, how to maintain coordination, how to maintain bank and pitch, altitude and airspeed, heading and course. You also just learn to handle the plans in various configurations and airspeeds. All this is done in the air and at altitude before working your way down to the landing.

There are so many questions that I have about what type of traffic pattern, airspeed and configuration you are in at various points in the landing. The fact that you are unable to control the aircraft and hold course over the ground tells me that you need to practice basic airwork first.

Take the lessons and build from there. Your technique makes no sense from a real world perspective and week just build up bad habits and incorrect expectations. For example, flying a final from 10 miles out is extremely unlikely. Generally I turn base to final with 1 to 2 miles to go, 3 at most in VFR. Class D airspace around a towered airport only extends 5 miles, so they aren't going to send you out that far. At an uncontrolled airport, a standard traffic pattern is used.

This also makes it clearer to me why you are struggling with the aircraft in general.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

ramonr
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by ramonr »

I will keep what you say in mind!

Tomas Linnet
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by Tomas Linnet »

I'm a member at the CIX VFR Club, a virtual flying club with a very good training program. All training are done using the default C172 a the shared cockpit function in JoinFS(freeware). several members are former RW pilots, so they do know what they are talking about.

more info here: http://www.cixvfrclub.org.uk/index.php
Kind Regards
Tomas

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C172, C182, P51 Civ, P51 Mil, B17, Spitfire, P47, B377 COTS,
J3 Cub, T6, Connie, P-40, V35B
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ramonr
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by ramonr »

hi Thomas,
thanks for the help.
I will for sure visit your site one day.
In the meantime I have made three landing on KGRF with success !
I have turned off the AP at 1700 feet and 6 milles away from the runway.
From there I have adjusted manually the descent rate at about -500 f/m and I have continuously controlled the direction to center myself with the runway.
I sill need to practice more but I am on the right track I think.
best regards
RR

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Oracle427
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by Oracle427 »

Don't fix on the descent rate. That is not proper technique.

Have you tried the lessons? They will teach you prop proper technique.

You need to be maintain the proper airspeed and sight picture on descent. The airspeed is very critical. The actual rate of descent will vary depending on atmospheric conditions not really is not important for landing on final if you are doing everything else correctly.

Better to take the lessons and learn to do out the correct way than trying to unlearn incorrect behavior. You should not be looking inside at the instruments very much.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

SeniorCessnaPilot
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Re: crash at take off with C172 and C182

Post by SeniorCessnaPilot »

Not sure if this issue was resolved, just wanted to add my 2 cents... I am a PPL who has flown most of my hours in 152/172s. I was never aware of how much rudder I had to dial on takeoff and how it translates into FSX, but I do remember having to step on the rudder to "fix" the turn coordinator which moves around a bit immediately after rotation!

I have never flown a real 182, though given the amount of available power, it will require a lot of right rudder correction otherwise you will roll to the left. This is something that seems consistent with high-performance SEL AC. So after practicing several TOs, I am now able to rotate into climb somewhat smoothly, though I need to stay on top of it.

Overall, I am very impressed with the level of immersion that has went into the 182, I feel as if I am learning something practical in the event I want to transition into a complex!

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