Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

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capthobbes
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Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

Post by capthobbes »

Hello folks,

I have a full hardware set up to emulate a Cessna 172 that includes a combination of hardware from various reputable companies. In any of my non-A2A aircraft, I have full control of my airplane using FSUIPC for P3D v5.

When I use my A2A Cessna 172 with my hardware, I can confirm that I have a working yoke (Brunner), rudders (Redbird RD1), gauges (Flight Illusion/FSUIPC), radio (TRC), GPS (emutek/RealTek), and digital input switches (FSUIPC). Under my FSUIPC analog inputs, I have an elevator trim and flaps control that appears to be working within A2A. However, my analog throttle and mixture levels (that use real Cessna controls with sliding potentiometers in FSUIPC) don't work with A2A and I don't see the control animations when using my hardware controls.

I can confirm that the analog inputs are indeed getting min and max signals when testing in my Flight Illusion software (G-Step configuration), and I seem to have no problems with other GA aircraft in P3D.

As a real world GA pilot, I would prefer to use A2A's Cessna 172 over Carenado C172 or P3D's C172 but I have never been able to get it working with some controls which prevents me from proper engine start up. I've struggled with this for the past few years and have left A2A's product sitting on the bench since I was never able to figure out what was causing the issue specific to A2A products. This is my last attempt at trying to get A2A C172 working fully with my hardware as I would really like to enjoy this product with my hardware investment.

Has anyone experienced similar issues or know of any other options to move forward? I can provide photos, videos, more information, whatever is needed to get throttle and mixture controls working with A2A C172. It's odd that these are the controls that I am experiencing issues with. Are there custom config settings required? I didn't see any options in the C172 Input configuration tool.

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hello,

make sure the controls are enabled in the sim + then you'll be wanting the custom variable lists to help you map + the A2A input config tool found under your start menu to help you correctly map.

viewtopic.php?f=108&t=40389

All the controls etc you purchased are great but ultimately they are all limited by out of the box being designed to work with the relaxed realism of the default sim, somewhat ironically meaning all the realism is often thrown out the window. However using the variable list above and the power of FSUIPC you should be able to custom program/map everything you need so you can have the best of both worlds, realistic hardware + realistic software.

thanks,
Lewis - A2A
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capthobbes
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Re: Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

Post by capthobbes »

Thanks for the response Lewis. I've reviewed the shared thread and want to make sure I understand the solution.

The attached A2A C172 Trainer - Variable list PDF file includes all the custom A2A variables available to the C172 trainer. I'm wondering where these variables are placed and if they require a value or just the variable name itself. For example, take the two controls I don't have access to in A2A; throttle and mixture:
- (L:Throttle1Position,percent)
- (L:Eng1_MixtureManualLever,percent)

In the A2A C172 Input Configurator, I see only 3 controllers available:
- CLSE NG Yoke
- GarSim 530
- JAY Rudder

Image

The A2A C172 Input Configurator does not have any available device options for the FSUIPC based GSA-010 I/O module from Flight Illusion. The GSA-010 I/O module is what interfaces the digital and analog inputs (as well as digital output) from the toggle switches, sliding potentiometers, etc.

I had a look into the FSUIPC6.ini config to reference any logic for the (L:Throttle1Position,percent) or (L:Eng1_MixtureManualLever,percent) variables. The FSUIPC6.ini file only references the 3 hardware devices listed above.

For clarification, all FSUIPC references for Flight Illusion's GSA-010 I/O module are inputted into Flight Illusion's G-Step configuration under the IO Module unit (gauges and engine cluster units are separate configurations).

Image

The defined Throttle lever control in the Engines category is set up in 'Create/Update' function of the G-Step Configuration where the FSUIPC offset value is configured.

The Flaps Control which is listed as an Analog control appears to be working fine within A2A C172, but the Throttle and Mixture lever do not. I haven't tested the Elevator Trim Control yet. I also noticed that the Digital Outputs (warning indicator lights) were also not communicating from A2A C172 to my hardware. All the Digital Inputs appear to be working correctly.

Image

Will the A2A variables support the GSA-010 I/O module, and if so, where do I reference the A2A variables? There doesn't seem to be an option that I can see within the A2A C172 Input Configurator.

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hello,

the variables are LVars so unfortunately if the hardware only supports one kind of variable you wont be able to custom program it. We found this an issue with some advanced hardware that for some reason seemed to be locked to relaxed realism software, compared to the much cheaper hardware that with programs such as LINDA and SPAD where utterly unlocked and allowed a user to control all sorts and program all sorts as they see fit.

I am not savvy on it all as I am more a plug and play guy using Saiteks, Logitechs, thrustmasters etc. Ill get one of our more control savvy guys to pop in to help answer some of the specific questions.

thanks,
Lewis
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Nick - A2A
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Re: Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hello capthobbes,

Lewis asked me to chime in on this one. Just wondering if you're able to simplify the operation slightly for the throttle and mixture levers, and rather than using IPC Offsets such as 088C, just use FSUIPC to directly assign these axes. So for the throttle for example, just use "throttle set"?

However, afraid I'm not at all familiar with the G-Step software, so not sure if specifying offsets is something required by this program?

Thanks,
Nick
A2A Simulations Inc.

capthobbes
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Re: Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

Post by capthobbes »

Thanks Lewis and Nick for the response. Unfortunately, FSUIPC doesn't recognize the throttle and mixture controls as an axis or input.

I reached out to the owner of Flight Illusions and he said that A2A isn’t supported because it doesn't use the FSUIPC offsets as A2A has created their own; it is not possible to support and maintain 3rd party products who don't adhere to these FSUIPC offsets. I was told that "there are some workarounds but as written these aren’t supported". I didn't get any additional details to what those workarounds are but am trying to follow up.

The total C172 hardware investment is approximately $30k brand new, so am a bit disheartened that I can't use the hardware for one of the most realistic C172 flight sims on the market. It's probably a big ask, but if there's anything I can do to help support/test my hardware with A2A in the future, please reach out to me as I will contribute as much time as possible to help this endeavour. I know A2A C172 is the right product for me as a pilot, but does not work with the advanced hardware I own.

alioth
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Re: Cessna 172 Hardware Control Issues

Post by alioth »

capthobbes wrote: 10 Dec 2022, 18:34 ... However, my analog throttle and mixture levels (that use real Cessna controls with sliding potentiometers in FSUIPC) don't work with A2A and I don't see the control animations when using my hardware controls.
I can confirm that the analog inputs are indeed getting min and max signals when testing in my Flight Illusion software (G-Step configuration), and I seem to have no problems with other GA aircraft in P3D.
I don't know about Flight illusion software, but I think you are using your own pots and they are linked to flight illusion software. Flight illusion then read them and put the values in the standard variables in the simulator. Those standard variables are not used by A2A (and A2A needs to do it in this way, looking for more realism that standard p3d can give you).

Ok. Workarounds options:

1.- Can flight illusion software write the pots values in custom offsets (from 66C0 to 66FF)? (I think yes because of the last image you posted). If yes... do it (0x66C0 and 0x66C4 as example). And then in fsuipc link these offsets with the a2a Lvars (L:Throttle1Position,percent) (L:Eng1_MixtureManualLever,percent)
Put 66C0 where is now "088C". The Lvar says "percet" so you should need min value = 0 and max value = 100 ( I can not test it now). Those are the values you will need later in (L:Throttle1Position,percent) (L:Eng1_MixtureManualLever,percent). If you need help linking an offset to a lvar see fsuipc docs, fsuipc support page, or ask here and I will help you.

2.- Forget flight illusion software for throttle/mixture levers and just use a leo bodnar card with these pots. Then link in fsuipc that new joystick axes with a2a lvars or controls through Axis assignemtns.


Advanced software can not use all standard variables, and "advanced hardware" (I would say expensive hardware, and sometimes not so advanced) can't not support all non-standard variables of all developers. This is the problem.
But just linking two pots with two A2A levers is not going to be a problem. It can be done.

Arturo.

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