Can't keep this plane in the air!

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monkeysuncle
Airman
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Jan 2022, 07:59

Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by monkeysuncle »

Hi, I'm new to this plane, and I've been really careful to go through pre-flight, etc., and pay attention to my airspeed, and right-rudder on takeoff, all that good stuff. But I just can't keep it in the air for more that a few seconds before it goes down. My control devices are working properly, I see rudder, ailerons, elevators, flaps etc, all working in the exterior view. I'm ready to give up on this plane and find another c172.

Any suggestions?

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Nick - A2A
A2A Captain
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Location: UK

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Dave,

I had a read of your previous topic, so I'm assuming the issue is still relating to loss of control on take-off?

Please can you try to take us through the sequence of events for a typical take off attempt. For example, how is the elevator trim set? What airspeed are you becoming airborne? Are you pitching for a specific V speed such as VY or VX? Are you stalling? Is the engine developing power normally? Or is it a directional loss of control? If so, is there a significant crosswind? You mention in your other thread that you're training for a PPL, and there are plenty of real world pilots on the forum here, so speaking in these terms should help us to get a much better idea of what's going on.

Also, though you mention you "see rudder, ailerons, elevators, flaps etc, all working in the exterior view" are you 100% sure they're moving fully and in the correct sense, and centring properly too? And that there are no unwanted flight control inputs from something like toes brake axes. This is something that caught me out recently in another sim!

Thanks,
Nick
A2A Simulations Inc.

monkeysuncle
Airman
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Jan 2022, 07:59

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by monkeysuncle »

I'm still at that point with this plane, like, where I'm done installing it, and setting up my devices and profiles (I'm using SPAD and Air Manager), familiarizing myself with the Checklist, The Pre-Flight, and the new dialogs that come with the A2A products. I'm loading a familiar flight plan, just wanting to get her into the air so I can go through the motions to test everything else out. So, I'm not really "in training" yet.

I'm not touching the trim, I've just leaving that where it is when the flight opens. My airspeed is at about 80 knots, when I lift off, but I'm trying to keep it on the runway as long as I can because it wants to lift off sooner much sooner, like at 50-60 knots (that's a guess). It pulls to the left, as I've learned to expect, and I compensate with right rudder. I don't know enough about V speed to answer that part of your question. I think I may be stalling and losing power, as I hear a stall alarm. There is no significant crosswind. I am using Active Sky for real world weather, so it is very cold. I'm still very novice and green with all of this, the point is to learn with this plane, after all.

I really wish this was a "trainer" in the true sense of the term, I wish plane would teach me what to look out for, what I'm doing wrong. I feel bad having to write my issues here every time I'm stuck. It's frustrating. Am I skipping steps?

thanks for taking the time to respond, Nick!

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Paughco
Senior Master Sergeant
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Joined: 30 Nov 2014, 12:27

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by Paughco »

Try watching some of SimCFI's videos on private pilot training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TGrWlk ... scUg5z9_v8.

Hang in. You'll get it.

Seeya
ATB
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alan CXA651
Senior Master Sergeant
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Joined: 15 Mar 2016, 08:23

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by alan CXA651 »

Hi.
Could you list the controllers you use with spad next , and do you have them going direct from sim commands or through the payed or free version of FSUIPC .
Also you say trim was left alone , did you check it moved in both directions then set back to 0 neutral trim as this might not be in the neutral positon but slightly of to one side.
I have CH yoke / rudder peddles / and two throttle quads and saitek trim for elevator trim , and i have had a wire snap in the rudder pedles which caused another control to move that should not have moved when yoke applied aileron .
regards Alan. 8)
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Jacques
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Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 17:54
Location: West Coast, USA

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by Jacques »

I’m wondering what happens if you don’t load real weather and just use a stock “calm” scenario.


And, apologies if this has already been mentioned, but, do you load your sim with a stock, default aircraft and then switch to the A2A Cessna?

…..my last question…everything okay in the maintenance hangar?

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ratty
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Location: KPMP

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by ratty »

The 172 is a pretty docile aeroplane, but the A2A version flies like the real thing, not like most of the stock aircraft. My guess is that you're trying to climb too hard. At high power and low speed you need quite a lot of rudder to keep it straight. Opt for a very gentle initial climb and allow the speed to build to 85-90 knots, then hold that with the stick, using the rudder to keep it going the right way.
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FlipS
Senior Airman
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Joined: 15 Oct 2013, 04:47

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by FlipS »

Keeping the c172 on the runway up to 80 kts is not the right procedure.
Start on the runway with some pressure on the nose wheel. Ease back the yoke to neutral as speed increases. (Directional control of the rudder will increase with increasing airspeed; the nose wheel will become less important).
Around 55 kts you will notice that the plane wants to take off. Pull the yoke and you'll be airborne. Climb with at least 70 kts indicated. Control the climb rate with the elevator. Vertical speed should be around 1000 ft/min, but that's less important.

There is an easy way to check if the rudder pedal setting is correct. Unplug the USB connector of the rudder pedals, go to Options > Realism and click on 'Autorudder'. Than try again if you can take off without crashing.

monkeysuncle
Airman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2022, 07:59

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by monkeysuncle »

Thanks for all the tips an ideas. I was able to get up in the air without crashing, which is encouraging. Playing with the trim helped a great deal. And with this, I was able to find my culprit! My Yoke is not working in the air! I tested in the walkaround and I swear the controls looked good. But once in the air, I had no elevators or ailerons. I checked my settings and calibration in SPAD, looks normal. I tried disabling the control in SPAD and enabled it in FSX, but that didn't help. I'm wondering if I need to program the axis' in a different way in SPAD. Currently, I select from the standard axis pull down. I wouldn't know what events to chose if I tried to program it with the FSUIPC or SIMCONNECT Events. Any ideas?

FlipS
Senior Airman
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Joined: 15 Oct 2013, 04:47

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by FlipS »

If nothing works, there may be another cause: your yoke could be faulty. I presume you have the Saitek (Logitech) yoke? It works with potentiometers and with my copy I could only fly circles counterclockwise. It was impossible to fly straight. It turned out that the grease (?!!!) in one of the potentiometers had hardened. Removing the hard lump of fat brought the solution.
If the yoke is not functioning properly, you will be able to tell from the ailerons and elevator, as well as when you calibrate the yoke.
Nowadays I only use a yoystick with Hall sensors.

monkeysuncle
Airman
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Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by monkeysuncle »

I use a Saitek Cessna yoke. It has worked perfectly fine with all my other default and add-on aircraft. This is my first A2A add on.

alan CXA651
Senior Master Sergeant
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Joined: 15 Mar 2016, 08:23

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by alan CXA651 »

Hi monkeysuncle.
Reading your last post , i have a feeling you forgot to take the control lock pin out of the yoke in the aircrafts VC , i have a habit of stopping at runway entry ang give the controls a last full and free before turning onto runway for takeoff.
regards Alan. 8)
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monkeysuncle
Airman
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Jan 2022, 07:59

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by monkeysuncle »

Hmm, I'll take a look! Is there a hotkey for that, do you know?

alan CXA651
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 2438
Joined: 15 Mar 2016, 08:23

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by alan CXA651 »

Hi monkiesuncle.
I dont know , i always move mouse over the lock pin then left click , while holding yoke in and centred , also shift+3 has a controls lock under MISC , if its hi-lighted , its ON , if faded its OFF clicking on this will change the lock state.
Also something else that could cause controls to suddenly fail is if windows decides to save power and shuts power off to a powered hub , any controller connected to that hub would stop controlling the aircraft , if thats the case then you will need to turn PC HUB power saving OFF if you have not already done so.
PC HUB POWER SAVING turn off on win 7 dont know about win 10/11
1/ taskbar windows/Control Panel/System/Device Manager\USB Serial Bus Controllers
2/ dubble left click on each USB and click on Power Management and UNTICK the box NOT ALL USB`s have POWER MANAGEMENT buttons
3/ click OK and exit
regards Alan. 8)
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monkeysuncle
Airman
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Jan 2022, 07:59

Re: Can't keep this plane in the air!

Post by monkeysuncle »

Here is much more info. I see clues to the problem, but I don't know what the actual problem is, or the solution.

Cold and Dark. I remove the control lock. Change to Outside view, my yoke is working as expected, the control surfaces are a-ok.
I start the engine, and taxi to the runway. Change to Outside view again. I check my yoke, nothing moves.
I open the mini control panel, control lock is off. I click on it, it illuminates "on", and I see my elevators drop. I click on control lock button again, nothing happens. I can't change it. The controls above and below it on the list toggle on and off as expected, but the control lock button does not. Also, even though it is lit as "on", mousing over it, it says it's "off."
I look inside, I see that the control lock is sitting in the side pouch, not on the yoke.

So, NOW what do I do?? It seems like a bug to me.

Frustrated, but not ready to give up yet!!!

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