The A2A Simulations Community

...you can see the pilot fighting against the aircraft wanting to picth up by pushing constantly on the yoke.
Just like ours!:-)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=rela ... M9YfwAEGR0


David

That is SO like A2A and FSX!

We've taken some flak for simulating this properly so thank you for posting this. Pushing on the yoke and the quick trim down is part of the takeoff.

Scott.

But the landing is very different from what we experience in A2A. Almost no float, he brings the nose up, and it doesn't want to climb, it just makes it stay in the air for another two or three seconds. Landing the C172 right now, as many users are reporting, is tougher than landing a P-51!

Alec,

I find the C172 to be very easy to land but we have noticed there are two different kinds of flight simmers out there, when it comes to how they use the controllers. We're working some new elevator response physics to accommodate both camps. The elevator does play a role in the landing characteristics, as we do model ground effect for the elevator as well (not sure if anyone has done this before). It just went into preliminary testing this morning and I this may address what you are feeling on landing.

Scott.

Believe me, this A2A model handles just like a 172. Airspeed control is really very important and you will float and balloon and go everywhere but onto the runway if you have excess airspeed.

We can't see how fast this pilot was going in the above video, so we can't judge how well he managed his airspeed, but I would have to guess he did great.

This video below is exactly how it can be and the video does not do the visuals justice. Too bad there is no shot of the panel to see what was going on there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a59n3dWclR0

Scott - A2A wrote:Alec,

I find the C172 to be very easy to land but we have noticed there are two different kinds of flight simmers out there, when it comes to how they use the controllers. We're working some new elevator response physics to accommodate both camps. The elevator does play a role in the landing characteristics, as we do model ground effect for the elevator as well (not sure if anyone has done this before). It just went into preliminary testing this morning and I this may address what you are feeling on landing.

Scott.

Anxious to try this out!

Oracle427 wrote:Believe me, this A2A model handles just like a 172. Airspeed control is really very important and you will float and balloon and go everywhere but onto the runway if you have excess airspeed.

We can't see how fast this pilot was going in this video, so we can't judge how well he managed his airspeed, but I would have to guess he did great.

This video below is exactly how it can be and the video does not do the visuals justice. Too bad there is no shot of the panel to see what was going on there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a59n3dWclR0

Yeah, that looks a lot more like me landing the A2A C172 right now! But it's that without any Gust Wind, just calm weather =p

Scott - A2A wrote:Alec,

I find the C172 to be very easy to land but we have noticed there are two different kinds of flight simmers out there, when it comes to how they use the controllers. We're working some new elevator response physics to accommodate both camps. The elevator does play a role in the landing characteristics, as we do model ground effect for the elevator as well (not sure if anyone has done this before). It just went into preliminary testing this morning and I this may address what you are feeling on landing.

Scott.

I hope you give us the option to choose the current vers over the new vers. I find
the current version to be perfectly accurate to the real aircraft. It requires quite
a bit of nose down force to keep it at 70 kts climbout, and if you don't, it will
quickly bite you in the butt if you lose focus and not attend to that.

I would hate to see this feature be tamed, so if you do 'tame' it, could you please
give us an option to have this existing physics vers the new physics.

I think the reason ppl find it different to what they expect is obviously
they are used to FSX aircraft rather than a real aircraft. The two behave
quite differently, and FSX aircraft are rather tame. It just requires watching
videos like this so you can learn the right way to do it.

Neon wrote:

Scott - A2A wrote:Alec,

I find the C172 to be very easy to land but we have noticed there are two different kinds of flight simmers out there, when it comes to how they use the controllers. We're working some new elevator response physics to accommodate both camps. The elevator does play a role in the landing characteristics, as we do model ground effect for the elevator as well (not sure if anyone has done this before). It just went into preliminary testing this morning and I this may address what you are feeling on landing.

Scott.

I hope you give us the option to choose the current vers over the new vers. I find
the current version to be perfectly accurate to the real aircraft. It requires quite
a bit of nose down force to keep it at 70 kts climbout, and if you don't, it will
quickly bite you in the butt if you lose focus and not attend to that.

I would hate to see this feature be tamed, so if you do 'tame' it, could you please
give us an option to have this existing physics vers the new physics.

I think the reason ppl find it different to what they expect is obviously
they are used to FSX aircraft rather than a real aircraft. The two behave
quite differently, and FSX aircraft are rather tame. It just requires watching
videos like this so you can learn the right way to do it.

+1
I have absolutely no problem landing this 172, neither have I got the friction issues.
Landing her is an absolute joy when flying within parameters.
What a beauty A2A created..!
I would hate to see these features be tamed

bliksimpie wrote:

Neon wrote:

Scott - A2A wrote:Alec,

I find the C172 to be very easy to land but we have noticed there are two different kinds of flight simmers out there, when it comes to how they use the controllers. We're working some new elevator response physics to accommodate both camps. The elevator does play a role in the landing characteristics, as we do model ground effect for the elevator as well (not sure if anyone has done this before). It just went into preliminary testing this morning and I this may address what you are feeling on landing.

Scott.

I hope you give us the option to choose the current vers over the new vers. I find
the current version to be perfectly accurate to the real aircraft. It requires quite
a bit of nose down force to keep it at 70 kts climbout, and if you don't, it will
quickly bite you in the butt if you lose focus and not attend to that.

I would hate to see this feature be tamed, so if you do 'tame' it, could you please
give us an option to have this existing physics vers the new physics.

I think the reason ppl find it different to what they expect is obviously
they are used to FSX aircraft rather than a real aircraft. The two behave
quite differently, and FSX aircraft are rather tame. It just requires watching
videos like this so you can learn the right way to do it.

+1
I have absolutely no problem landing this 172, neither have I got the friction issues.
Landing her is an absolute joy when flying within parameters.
What a beauty A2A created..!
I would hate to see these features be tamed

+1

Both footage here shows all landings on the verge of a stall judging by the signal sound which is about 50kts but i thought good practice is to put her down at about 65 - 70kts. Is it safe to challenge a stall speed for a slower landing prior to touchdown thus perhaps preventing any ballooning etc?

Helpful footage thanks.

From what I hear (not a real pilot) any speed above 60 knots will get you in trouble!
All landings I've seen are accomplished while stalling.


David

It takes a lot of practice, but once you get the hang of it it isn't all that bad.

Approach to landing is at 65-70 KIAS. Note that you should be at idle throttle by the time you are on short final and the last setting of 30 degrees of flaps is added.

Glide break to level flight in ground effect is smoothly entered from about 20 feet above the runway. By this point you will be bleeding off quite a bit of airspeed.

Once level over the runway with the wheels about 1 foot over the runway you then proceed to keep the airplane flying by pulling back on the yoke until the you run out of yoke travel and the airplane stalls and touches the runway, do not let it sink onto the runway. However do not pull back too much such that the airplane climbs away from the runway. If it does climb away a little just freeze the stick position wherever it is and continue pulling back once the airplane settles down to the appropriate height. If done correctly, you will not see the runway over the nose. I have to peek a little to the side, just like the real aircraft, to keep oriented while flaring and during touchdown.

I was trained to keep pulling and hold the yoke all the way back even after touchdown for max aerodynamic braking. I'm not sure that this works on a 172R as it appears to result in a tail strike according to the A2A tests.

If you fly the airplane to the ground at 65KIAS, you will never be able to land it as it will still be flying until very close to the bottom of the white arc and you stand a very real risk of landing nose wheel first as you try to force it down onto the runway. The nose wheel on the 172 and even more so on 182s are notorious for getting damaged. The other issue is that you will use a lot more runway than is actually required. I'm 100% certain that I would miss the entire runway at my home airport (N07) if I came in that fast as it is only 2900 feet long. If I were to try to force the airplane down it will probably bounce all along the runway and the brakes will be ineffective as the airplane would still have too much lift.

Scott - A2A wrote:We've taken some flak for simulating this properly so thank you for posting this. Pushing on the yoke and the quick trim down is part of the takeoff.

Scott.

It was nice to see this reproduced correctly! I love this plane!


David